Cottesmore to close
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
From: Lincolnshire
Bismark -how do you save money by keeping the hangars and runway open at Cottesmore?? As for Witt -the future of the base is in no way reliant on the JSF happening or not - it has a long future ahead .
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: UK
I remember when 1(F) and 20(R) were both located at Wittering during the 90s. It was an incredibly tight squeeze even then, and that's before Witt became the A4 hub that it is today. Where exactly will JFH put an extra 2 front line sqns at Wittering? And when they do shoehorn themselves into the tiny space that remains, who will get priority in the circuit - the OCU or the front line units? (this was always a huge issue in the past).
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 587
Likes: 11
From: Outbound
Czech,
I would imagine the OCU will get smaller, seeing as it's only going to be feeding 2 squadrons. The NSW, I thought, was only really about squadron size anyway, so when one of the front line units closes it'll just be 3 sqns at Witt.
Still a squeeze I'm sure, but 20(R) have already cancelled some courses.
I would imagine the OCU will get smaller, seeing as it's only going to be feeding 2 squadrons. The NSW, I thought, was only really about squadron size anyway, so when one of the front line units closes it'll just be 3 sqns at Witt.
Still a squeeze I'm sure, but 20(R) have already cancelled some courses.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 68
Likes: 4
From: Where ever the wind takes me
My post does have a slight biased slant on it due to me having been the man down in the weeds on more than one occasion! There are plus and minuses to both aircraft, but at the moment there are just too many brucie bonus points towards the "man with one fan"!
GR9
A very capable flown by some bloody amazing pilots! One man cockpit, and in the old days a useless TIALD pod was backed up with a good pair of binos. Nowadays an upgraded pod means they could do without the binos. The crews of JHF had "booty" pilots up there, who 99% had done a tour as troop commander in a rifle company, it really does help when telling the pilot about the ground scheme of manouvere and having a guy who actually understands intamately what your talking about!
Weapons, they had a nice mix of weapons on board. The SCL was changable with a bit of pushing, the best thing was them taking off those "slick" bombs. Now if you'd only had "ret" all the time!! The SoF could of gone kinetic and shocked the TB to death. The CRV7's fired on there own were good for warning/marking and as a whole pod they had mega area coverage, and leathal against pax.
GR4
An old airframe, thats just not manouverable enough (think mercedes benz...fast in a straight line but go around a corner fast and they fall over/apart). The 2 man crew, the pilot has good vis however the nav (sorry) has restricted arcs due to the air intakes (a navs words not mine). The aircrew unfortunatly need to be released prior to going OOA and get some Ex time with the grunts on PDT and get the ground scheme of manouver weighed off.
Weapons, DM Brimstone.... no anti armour threat that im aware off (but cost a shed load to develop so by god were gonna use it) think Hellfire uses (mouseholes into compound walls etc). The 27mm gun doesnt have enough rounds and a quick enough rate of fire to make it even into the same league as the A10's 30mm, and as for the the occasional stoppages....
The good weapon you have is the new EPW which gives you more choice on how you can attack the target (if the ROE permits).
Like i said on my first post, this is just my view!! But i am biased, having seen the handy work of some GR7/9 pilots...EPW2, 60m, extreame Danger Close!
At the end of the day, as long as whoevers up there keeps doing what there doing; you'll keep our boys safe.
WW.
GR9
A very capable flown by some bloody amazing pilots! One man cockpit, and in the old days a useless TIALD pod was backed up with a good pair of binos. Nowadays an upgraded pod means they could do without the binos. The crews of JHF had "booty" pilots up there, who 99% had done a tour as troop commander in a rifle company, it really does help when telling the pilot about the ground scheme of manouvere and having a guy who actually understands intamately what your talking about!
Weapons, they had a nice mix of weapons on board. The SCL was changable with a bit of pushing, the best thing was them taking off those "slick" bombs. Now if you'd only had "ret" all the time!! The SoF could of gone kinetic and shocked the TB to death. The CRV7's fired on there own were good for warning/marking and as a whole pod they had mega area coverage, and leathal against pax.
GR4
An old airframe, thats just not manouverable enough (think mercedes benz...fast in a straight line but go around a corner fast and they fall over/apart). The 2 man crew, the pilot has good vis however the nav (sorry) has restricted arcs due to the air intakes (a navs words not mine). The aircrew unfortunatly need to be released prior to going OOA and get some Ex time with the grunts on PDT and get the ground scheme of manouver weighed off.
Weapons, DM Brimstone.... no anti armour threat that im aware off (but cost a shed load to develop so by god were gonna use it) think Hellfire uses (mouseholes into compound walls etc). The 27mm gun doesnt have enough rounds and a quick enough rate of fire to make it even into the same league as the A10's 30mm, and as for the the occasional stoppages....
The good weapon you have is the new EPW which gives you more choice on how you can attack the target (if the ROE permits).
Like i said on my first post, this is just my view!! But i am biased, having seen the handy work of some GR7/9 pilots...EPW2, 60m, extreame Danger Close!
At the end of the day, as long as whoevers up there keeps doing what there doing; you'll keep our boys safe.
WW.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: UK
The NSW, I thought, was only really about squadron size anyway
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: EGXJ
The Navy has been working very hard over the last 5 years to grow it's numbers and branch into 2 squadrons. There was still a fair way to go but needless to say there will be a lot of "shipmates" (particularly maintainers) having the rug pulled from under them. This is a bleak time all round and the guys at the coalface need to unite and fight for their common cause, whichever shade of blue they wear (at the moment!).
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,609
Likes: 0
From: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
If Cottesmore has to close to supply
the guys on the ground with the most effective cammo,
THEN SO BE IT!
BBC News - British Army to get new camouflage uniform
MultiCam.com Images
Thank heavens someone at MOD listened to M Yon.!!
THEN SO BE IT!
BBC News - British Army to get new camouflage uniform
MultiCam.com Images
Thank heavens someone at MOD listened to M Yon.!!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: LN4
Protest Group Pages
If you want to register your opposition to the closure of RAF Cottesmore, you can join these groups! The response so far has been outstanding. Over 6000 supporters in just over 5 days! A formal campaign is coming soon!
SAVE RAF COTTESMORE | Facebook
and:
Save RAF Cottesmore | Facebook
Cheers!
SAVE RAF COTTESMORE | Facebook
and:
Save RAF Cottesmore | Facebook
Cheers!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: .
The response may have been excellent, but one of the groups claims that the main reason for keeping Cottesmore open is the fact it is "vital in supplying the Harrier to Afghanistan," and the other doesn't offer anything at all.
We can campaign against cuts, but I think any specific campaign to keep Cottesmore has to have some concrete reasons, and some alternatives. A few thousand people saying "because I want it to stay open" isn't really likely to cut it.
We can campaign against cuts, but I think any specific campaign to keep Cottesmore has to have some concrete reasons, and some alternatives. A few thousand people saying "because I want it to stay open" isn't really likely to cut it.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
From: Several miles SSW of Watford Gap
With the usual caveats on the danger of assumption...
Given the dire state of the Defence budget, one could assume that the option to reduce the Harrier Force and close Cottesmore earlier than planned (it did not have a future post Harrier anyway) was put forward as the 'least bad'.
So if we transfer to fantasy land where Facebook petitions have an effect, if Cottesmore was to be saved for a few more years, those savings would still have to be made so Defence would have took look at other - even less palatable - options. It would be good to see if the originators of he petitions have identified what they will cut in Cottesmore's place.
Given the dire state of the Defence budget, one could assume that the option to reduce the Harrier Force and close Cottesmore earlier than planned (it did not have a future post Harrier anyway) was put forward as the 'least bad'.
So if we transfer to fantasy land where Facebook petitions have an effect, if Cottesmore was to be saved for a few more years, those savings would still have to be made so Defence would have took look at other - even less palatable - options. It would be good to see if the originators of he petitions have identified what they will cut in Cottesmore's place.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
From: Bury St Edmunds.
Cuts here, cuts there, defence cuts every bloody where.
Has anybody actually cornered a politician, in front of a camara and asked why they won't provide the budget necessary to support the forces because that's what it's all about.
2.1 % of GDP isn't it. What a joke. If they really want us to become a pacifist state why not say so and be judged on it. I'm sure that's what Brown wants. As for the other tribe, shortly to take over, we'll have to wait and see.
I'm no expert of course and all can say is for Gods sake stay safe and have the best Christmas/new year that you possibly can.
Good luck,
GA, Mrs GA and the two little GA's.
Has anybody actually cornered a politician, in front of a camara and asked why they won't provide the budget necessary to support the forces because that's what it's all about.
2.1 % of GDP isn't it. What a joke. If they really want us to become a pacifist state why not say so and be judged on it. I'm sure that's what Brown wants. As for the other tribe, shortly to take over, we'll have to wait and see.
I'm no expert of course and all can say is for Gods sake stay safe and have the best Christmas/new year that you possibly can.
Good luck,
GA, Mrs GA and the two little GA's.
Gentleman Aviator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,722
Likes: 91
From: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
What particularly grips me about politicians at present - specifically rather than my general objection - is their use of the phrase "frontline services" to mean NHS, education, social services, especially when they say "no cuts to frontline services"
There's only one front line, and only one frontline service .......DEFENCE
There's only one front line, and only one frontline service .......DEFENCE
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
From: Falmouth
RAF Cottesmore will close in 2013 - Rutland & Stamford Mercury
Why is defence a "Frontline" service and the NHS isn't ?
There's only one front line, and only one frontline service .......DEFENCE
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 488
From: The Roman Empire
Vec....
If you believe the logic of what you have just quoted then Culdrose, Yeovilton, Devonport, Portsmouth and Rosyth should all also close immediately, along with every military facility in the UK.
Your comments on pprune seem to be getting more and more extreme/wacky/illogical of late, even for you. Senile dementia setting in, have you been at the cooking sherry early this Christmas, or have you just decided to take up fishing big time?
If you believe the logic of what you have just quoted then Culdrose, Yeovilton, Devonport, Portsmouth and Rosyth should all also close immediately, along with every military facility in the UK.
Your comments on pprune seem to be getting more and more extreme/wacky/illogical of late, even for you. Senile dementia setting in, have you been at the cooking sherry early this Christmas, or have you just decided to take up fishing big time?
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
From: Falmouth
That is very true. I am merely trying to defend the phrase "Frontline". Frontline is not a phrase / word that is purely reserved for defence. Frontline Recruitment Ltd for instance.
If you are discussing a frontline service then surely the NHS is the only frontline service.
If you are discussing a frontline service then surely the NHS is the only frontline service.