Distress / Urgency radio calls
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Yep, CAP413 comes in soon meaning we fall in line with t'civvys.
Including but not limited to:
pan pan pan: pan-pan pan-pan pan-pan
Roll: Touch and Go
Land: Full Stop
Continue (i.e on finals): Continue approach
Line Up: Line up and wait
and other assorted RT nuances (nuisances?) designed to increase the amount of words required to accomplish what can be said in one or two.
Including but not limited to:
pan pan pan: pan-pan pan-pan pan-pan
Roll: Touch and Go
Land: Full Stop
Continue (i.e on finals): Continue approach
Line Up: Line up and wait
and other assorted RT nuances (nuisances?) designed to increase the amount of words required to accomplish what can be said in one or two.
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I once heard "Pan-Pan-Pan-This is a real Pan" and that got the desired effect!
I also heard a larger then life OC 18 Sqn in Wsx days who always returned with a practice pan say "Pan etc etc" to receive "Peter Pan your practice Pan is acknowledged" from ATC, but on this occasion, it was a real one, and said person was out of the aircraft marching up to ATC before the rotors had stopped on arrival to base.
I also heard a larger then life OC 18 Sqn in Wsx days who always returned with a practice pan say "Pan etc etc" to receive "Peter Pan your practice Pan is acknowledged" from ATC, but on this occasion, it was a real one, and said person was out of the aircraft marching up to ATC before the rotors had stopped on arrival to base.
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This is obviously a quirk of the UK Forces? We've had the same comms requirements as civvies for as long as I've known it. Additionally, all the comms you've put up the top there are equivalent to what we use here too.
Not arguing right or wrong, just interested, and would love some clarification if you guys feel like expanding. I find the nuances of the world's air traffic rules fascinating (especially seeing as I come from one of the most un-ICAO regions in the world!!!)
Not arguing right or wrong, just interested, and would love some clarification if you guys feel like expanding. I find the nuances of the world's air traffic rules fascinating (especially seeing as I come from one of the most un-ICAO regions in the world!!!)
Avoid imitations
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I had one Puma student who got his tongue twisted and called: "Prastish, er plastisch, er Plastic Pan, Plastic Pan, Plastic Pan!"
He went on to be a test pilot...
He went on to be a test pilot...
Yes, Him
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Saw some Alaskan trawler thing on TV a few weeks ago and one of the fleet put out a (for real, later sank) Pon Pon Pon. It attracted the Coastguard though.
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kharmael
I have to disagree with you about increase in words used, it is not always the case.
An aircraft taxing to the holding point of a runway and about checking in with tower:-
Civil intial call "xx123 taxing to hold short of RWY19"
ATC reply not required as the aircraft has made clear that it is not to enter the runway.
Military intial call "xx123 taxing to RWY 19"
ATC reply "hold at (position xyz)".
Military readback "xx123 holding"
With the civil system the aircrafts intentions are made clear with one radio transmision with the added bonus that if you are just about to land you know at an instant that the aircraft approaching the hold is not about to enter the runway.
I personaly will miss some of the RT calls but the problem is the RAF has been using non standard RT and this can result in confusion when operating in a joint military/civil enviroment and so see this as a small step forward in air safety.
An aircraft taxing to the holding point of a runway and about checking in with tower:-
Civil intial call "xx123 taxing to hold short of RWY19"
ATC reply not required as the aircraft has made clear that it is not to enter the runway.
Military intial call "xx123 taxing to RWY 19"
ATC reply "hold at (position xyz)".
Military readback "xx123 holding"
With the civil system the aircrafts intentions are made clear with one radio transmision with the added bonus that if you are just about to land you know at an instant that the aircraft approaching the hold is not about to enter the runway.
I personaly will miss some of the RT calls but the problem is the RAF has been using non standard RT and this can result in confusion when operating in a joint military/civil enviroment and so see this as a small step forward in air safety.
Mayday, Mayday, Practice mayday!
Shy, I believe it was you who told me about a, "Mayday, Mayday, Practice Mayday", call you once heard during JP training? I understand it got some sharp attention!
CG
CG
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This phraseology was first suggested in the mid 80s I think, holding at Scampton with CFS Bulldogs at Scampton (tri-graph SAP) I heard:
SAP ??: Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Papa ??, oh forget it that's taken far too long, visual with the field to tower!
Π
SAP ??: Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Papa ??, oh forget it that's taken far too long, visual with the field to tower!
Π
Well said Gainsey...
As for the rest, I reckon panpanpan will get someone's attention as adequately as "panpanpanpanpanpanpanpan" etc...
Failing that, a good mayday never hurt anyone
As for the rest, I reckon panpanpan will get someone's attention as adequately as "panpanpanpanpanpanpanpan" etc...
Failing that, a good mayday never hurt anyone
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Gainsey
CAP413 is just the UK CAA interpritation on the ICAO standard, this standard RT has made international flying a lot safer over the years bringing vast improvement in the RT of places in southern europe (France excepted!).
I see the RAF falling into line as another step in the flight safely system, clearly the powers that be see it in the same way.
But what is next to go?........................ QFE?
Time to take cover me thinks
I see the RAF falling into line as another step in the flight safely system, clearly the powers that be see it in the same way.
But what is next to go?........................ QFE?
Time to take cover me thinks
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Pan x 6 supposedly came in so long ago that I have forgotten when! Certainly before the 1980s. Maybe it came and went and has come again.
"Round and round went the flipping great wheel"
"Round and round went the flipping great wheel"
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'Pan Pan Pan, Carbon 1 etc etc...'
Student FC - 'Carbon 1 Boulmer, Pan acknowledged. Squawk 7000, you're cleared en route.'
Hawk pilot in question followed the instructions to the letter and was next heard freecalling Leeming ATC...
The Student FC was chopped shortly after.
RIP JM.
Student FC - 'Carbon 1 Boulmer, Pan acknowledged. Squawk 7000, you're cleared en route.'
Hawk pilot in question followed the instructions to the letter and was next heard freecalling Leeming ATC...
The Student FC was chopped shortly after.
RIP JM.
Thread Starter
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Pan x 6 supposedly came in so long ago that I have forgotten when! Certainly before the 1980s. Maybe it came and went and has come again.
Avoid imitations
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Shy, I believe it was you who told me about a, "Mayday, Mayday, Practice Mayday", call you once heard during JP training? I understand it got some sharp attention!
CG
CG
The JP system was live on both mikes with either transmit switch pressed.
After the student said "Mayday, Mayday.... Practice Mayday!" the QFI was heard saying:
"You.... F'ing idiot!"
Luvverley!
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May I comment as a civvy ATCO with Mil experience?
"Pan," whether expressed 2, 3, 4 or 6 times will grab my attention.
The worst (false alarm) experience I ever had was earlier this year, when a pilot, when asked to report his position and level (as part of what was a FIS) reported overhead "PA-PA-PA-PADstow."
I started stuttering myself a bit after that for a few minutes.
"Pan," whether expressed 2, 3, 4 or 6 times will grab my attention.
The worst (false alarm) experience I ever had was earlier this year, when a pilot, when asked to report his position and level (as part of what was a FIS) reported overhead "PA-PA-PA-PADstow."
I started stuttering myself a bit after that for a few minutes.
Isn't the point of standardisation that it's, umm standard? If the pattern for a PAN is always the same, the rhythm always the same, then in less-than-perfect conditions (failing radio, bad wx, etc) the message will get through simply because it is recognisable as a familiar pattern. Yes, when everything's quiet and reception perfect, then perhaps a bit of deviation is ok... but when stuff is hitting the fan then as Foxy implies, you want someone to pay attention. Yes?