Approved flying clothing
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Approved flying clothing
The guys on SS II (Oman) have been ordered not to wear their desert boots that they bought themselves and wear the euro climate ***** on any day flying boot jet cockpit for the use of issue kit.
Twas bad enough that the boys (girls??) had to buy suitable kit without this from up above.
Day temps at 41 and low 30s at night make for some pretty sweaty tootsies I would think. Wonder how many Condors will come back from Oman.
Anyone seen the Dragon Lights for the NVG sorties? or the fill for the GPS?
No, guess there still in England then!!
Yozzer
PS
Ref "Issue Flying Clothing", Soldier 95 is the "authorised" F/C for the SH crews. Tropical kit was NEVER procured, forsight what!
Twas bad enough that the boys (girls??) had to buy suitable kit without this from up above.
Day temps at 41 and low 30s at night make for some pretty sweaty tootsies I would think. Wonder how many Condors will come back from Oman.
Anyone seen the Dragon Lights for the NVG sorties? or the fill for the GPS?
No, guess there still in England then!!
Yozzer
PS
Ref "Issue Flying Clothing", Soldier 95 is the "authorised" F/C for the SH crews. Tropical kit was NEVER procured, forsight what!
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Well, I seem to remember that, when I took the first Meteor FR9 detachment to Aden in 56, we flew low level PR sorties over the East Aden Protectorate in lightweight (blue) flying suits, Marks & Sparks vests and knickers and black Oxford shoes (ossifers pattern). We had long since lost our black flying boots and thick woolly socks. There was no cockpit air conditioning and the temps used to reach 150 degs F. Pilots were losing 3 lbs per sortie ( but rapidly restored it in the bar!). Perhaps your smelly feet will keep the scorpions at bay! Good luck!.
PS. We had a rugged aircraft, with simple systems and 2 bloody good RR engines. so although we were operating beyond VHF range from Khormaksar and could not afford the hours to fly in pairs, walking home did not figure very prominently in our planning. Anyway, the natives were hostile and our "goolie-chits" were probably in the wrong lingo!
(Edited by FV for Postscript)
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Flatus Veteranus ]
PS. We had a rugged aircraft, with simple systems and 2 bloody good RR engines. so although we were operating beyond VHF range from Khormaksar and could not afford the hours to fly in pairs, walking home did not figure very prominently in our planning. Anyway, the natives were hostile and our "goolie-chits" were probably in the wrong lingo!
(Edited by FV for Postscript)
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Flatus Veteranus ]
Lets see, will the SH det:
A. Comply fully with this well thought out and rational order
or
B. Do what usually happens in this situation and stick two fingers up at it, make themselves as comfortable as they can and get on with the job in hand.
A. Comply fully with this well thought out and rational order
or
B. Do what usually happens in this situation and stick two fingers up at it, make themselves as comfortable as they can and get on with the job in hand.
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Yozza tell the bureaucratic ars’oles to 8ollocks!!!!!!!! And remember no two SH operators can be seen to wear the same kit on the same cab at the same time .. it’s the law. 
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I can understand the "no prvately purchased" desert footwear thing...unless a line is drawn somehwere there are those who would go flying in flipflops.
That said, as I see it, it's verging on negligence that the correct footwear/flying clothing has not been purchased or provided. Do those in so-called power not understand that if it weren't for folk on, for example, the SH force BUYING their own boots, sleeping bags et al, things would have ground to a halt long ago.
That said, as I see it, it's verging on negligence that the correct footwear/flying clothing has not been purchased or provided. Do those in so-called power not understand that if it weren't for folk on, for example, the SH force BUYING their own boots, sleeping bags et al, things would have ground to a halt long ago.
(Unwelcome negative note) - er, actually, the issue 1965-pattern lightweight (original brown or current black) boot does a perfectly good job in the heat of Oman. Should know - used them (2 pairs lasted me a tour there, 1 pair has lasted 3 years in the heat and humidity of Brunei). If anything they're better suited to that environment than they are to the UK - as anyone who's tried E&E in HM smooth-soled carpet slippers on a wet moorland surface will vouch. Any boots used for serious jebel-bashing, however, will only last a few months - the rocks around J Akhdar, Izki and elsewhere are pretty sharp.
Have fun.
Have fun.
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I was "lucky" enough to be issued Desert DPM for a hot climate just recently and was amazed to find that it is heavier than CS95 Green Stuff. After 1 exercise we all reverted back to CS95 as even though we sweated just as profusely the material dried out a lot more quickly. Desert DPM is a nice colour but as us Rocks say "You can RAM it!"
As for boots, well there is nowhere near the correct anount of time to acclimatise so feet will leak loads anyway no matter what you wear. As soon as you can get them off do so, dry tootsies, then lob on clouds of powder.
Our bunch are soooooo looking forward to having a scrap in kit designed for NW Europe.
Guess that puts us all firlmy in the same canoe disappearing up that well known sidewater!!
As for boots, well there is nowhere near the correct anount of time to acclimatise so feet will leak loads anyway no matter what you wear. As soon as you can get them off do so, dry tootsies, then lob on clouds of powder.
Our bunch are soooooo looking forward to having a scrap in kit designed for NW Europe.
Guess that puts us all firlmy in the same canoe disappearing up that well known sidewater!!
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NATOPS requires flying gloves, id tags (dog tags), a pair of approved flying boots and any other personal equipment required by that T/M/S (type/model/series). Flying suits, socks, undergarments, etc. are not specifically required unless they’re in the squadron SOP.
A few aircrew have diverted to non destination airfields w/only the minimum required flight gear. Questions and charges usually followed for public indecency, though the charges were always beaten.
A few aircrew have diverted to non destination airfields w/only the minimum required flight gear. Questions and charges usually followed for public indecency, though the charges were always beaten.
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Padster, If it's ability we ask for why are we having to lower our standards just to get Aircrew through the OCU's, never mind basic trg? The chop rates are getting higher, I wonder why ? Is it the fact that the wrong people are being chosen or is it the fact they have no ability ? Or is it the fact that everyone buys their own kit because we either have 'hand me down kit' or the money just isn't there? Buy your own, be comfortable and enjoy your flying! Ability= knowledge+tools+equipment . Whats missing from the equation?
[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Rude C'man ]
[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Rude C'man ]
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To put Yozzer's mind at rest, those of us who have been operating in bang seats around the Middle East for the past few years find the '65 pattern boots more than adequate for the cockpit and scrubbing around in the desert. I wonder how long your comfy, expensive Wranglers would last?
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The order did not actually specify privately-purchased desert boots. It was intended to prevent the wearing of issue desert-boots, which have nylon panels. It doesn't make a lot of difference to aircrew as only suppliers have them anyway.
Flatus V
Nostalgia is not what it used to be!! The 'goolie chits' problem was not with the language used. The problem was that the amount of MT dollars on offer for safe return of Aircrew and other government officers was about half of what the opposition were offering for their apprehension - dead or alive!!
I was searching through old odds and sods the other day and came across my old 'goolie chit' - all pink and near perfect
One place I have no ambition to return to - but you're right about the footwear and the flying gear.
Nostalgia is not what it used to be!! The 'goolie chits' problem was not with the language used. The problem was that the amount of MT dollars on offer for safe return of Aircrew and other government officers was about half of what the opposition were offering for their apprehension - dead or alive!!
I was searching through old odds and sods the other day and came across my old 'goolie chit' - all pink and near perfect
One place I have no ambition to return to - but you're right about the footwear and the flying gear.
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Al Herbs said:
'65 pattern boots more than adequate for the cockpit
But your go faster pointy things probably have air-con not cockpit (Sorry lets be PC - Box Office) temps in excess of 50c with a window to let the dust into.
The Greenhouse on the front of the rotary 4 tonner works quite well, managing to write off the smell of clean f/kit in v short time.
Air Con crewroom > Air Con Jet
v
Tent > Sweat box > tent
No comparison really
TM
'65 pattern boots more than adequate for the cockpit
But your go faster pointy things probably have air-con not cockpit (Sorry lets be PC - Box Office) temps in excess of 50c with a window to let the dust into.
The Greenhouse on the front of the rotary 4 tonner works quite well, managing to write off the smell of clean f/kit in v short time.
Air Con crewroom > Air Con Jet
v
Tent > Sweat box > tent
No comparison really
TM
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Fair 'nuff TM. Advice to the career minded though - liberal lashings of polish do tend to ramp up the internal boot temperature in hot climates. Natural aircrew indolence on that score does increase the comfort factor (I've heard).
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C J
I was searching through old odds and sods the other day and came across my old goolies - all pink and near perfect. Thank C****t!
Thanks for reminding me why our confidence in the chits was so low.
We had to take off at dawn to be on target at first photographic light to get home before the temps got too high for the photo processing trailer. We were trying to get oblique line overlaps of the Yemen "border" to help brief 8 Sqn pilots. Trouble was, no one really knew where the border lay. We were given crude hand-drawn sketch-maps of bits of desert with a dotted line on it, with a signed statement from some FCO "fonctionnaire" that this represented his belief of where the border lay. And we were told that if the Yemenis complained to the UN that we had violated the border our heads would roll. All good clean fun! At first the four of us were stuffed into a single room in the transit mess. Complaints had no effect. I then confronted the (ex-Bomber Command) OC ops and told him that if we were expected to live and operate under these conditions, Flight Safety would be a major factor and that if necessary I would signal Takali to that effect. So we moved into double rooms in the Rock Hotel at Rate 1 for 3 months, at the end of which I was able to buy my Rolex and a decent camera. Happy days!
I was searching through old odds and sods the other day and came across my old goolies - all pink and near perfect. Thank C****t!
Thanks for reminding me why our confidence in the chits was so low.
We had to take off at dawn to be on target at first photographic light to get home before the temps got too high for the photo processing trailer. We were trying to get oblique line overlaps of the Yemen "border" to help brief 8 Sqn pilots. Trouble was, no one really knew where the border lay. We were given crude hand-drawn sketch-maps of bits of desert with a dotted line on it, with a signed statement from some FCO "fonctionnaire" that this represented his belief of where the border lay. And we were told that if the Yemenis complained to the UN that we had violated the border our heads would roll. All good clean fun! At first the four of us were stuffed into a single room in the transit mess. Complaints had no effect. I then confronted the (ex-Bomber Command) OC ops and told him that if we were expected to live and operate under these conditions, Flight Safety would be a major factor and that if necessary I would signal Takali to that effect. So we moved into double rooms in the Rock Hotel at Rate 1 for 3 months, at the end of which I was able to buy my Rolex and a decent camera. Happy days!
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My sympathies to all those enjoying safe dihorrea. For those concerned about the link between inadequate flying clothing and flight safety you may be interested to know that IFS is also concerned. He should be, the flying clothing scales are set from within his own organisation - by aircrew.
Trouble is, many grumble but few act. Send in an E-mail an you may be able to influence the shape (not size!) of the clothing budget.
Trouble is, many grumble but few act. Send in an E-mail an you may be able to influence the shape (not size!) of the clothing budget.
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I started the thread with:
The guys on SS II (Oman) have been ordered not to wear their desert boots that they bought themselves and wear the euro climate ***** on any day flying boot jet cockpit for the use of issue kit.
..and now I hear a distant rumour that Big Chief JHF has recinded the order.
Anyone able to confirm this? or is it just wishful thinking. It will make a very pleasant change to the norm if true.
Yozzer
The guys on SS II (Oman) have been ordered not to wear their desert boots that they bought themselves and wear the euro climate ***** on any day flying boot jet cockpit for the use of issue kit.
..and now I hear a distant rumour that Big Chief JHF has recinded the order.
Anyone able to confirm this? or is it just wishful thinking. It will make a very pleasant change to the norm if true.
Yozzer
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Marine,
Which incident are you citing?
The Herk out of the Stumps that walked to the acft, stripped to gloves, tags, and boots then flew an emergency tanking for some Hornets that led to a divert to a certain civilian field sans clothes?
The Prowler crew from Cherry point that walked as dressed above then added speed jeans, vest and helmet for a mission then had to divert to a certain navy base in Va.?
The Hornet crews that walked appropriately attired then launched for a mission but had to divert to an USAF base during airshow practice?
S/F, FOG
Which incident are you citing?
The Herk out of the Stumps that walked to the acft, stripped to gloves, tags, and boots then flew an emergency tanking for some Hornets that led to a divert to a certain civilian field sans clothes?
The Prowler crew from Cherry point that walked as dressed above then added speed jeans, vest and helmet for a mission then had to divert to a certain navy base in Va.?
The Hornet crews that walked appropriately attired then launched for a mission but had to divert to an USAF base during airshow practice?
S/F, FOG
