Can't be right....can it?
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Can't be right....can it?
Had the 'pleasure' to have a round of golf this morning. One of the four ball I was in happened to be a young RAF Provost Officer. Well, as the conversation goes when talking to the Police, the most innocent topic was work. He informs me that under the latest MOD bill the RAF Police will be given powers of locally sworn Constables, thus on paper creating however many hundred more Police Officers for Joe public to be amazed at.
Never mind the public, if this is true, what effect will it have on the rest of us.
Can anyone shed any light.???
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I hope thats only a plod sprouting off to impress..... can you imagine mr (a/cpl unpaid) plod trying to sort out a wild football riot!! I am sure there would be murder, well his at least. the two methods of policing dont seem to mix..
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I very much doubt this is fact. My understanding of the issue is that MOD Plod are to get emergency powers of a Constable, whereas at present they only have authority over MOD employee's or matters connected with MOD land.As far as the RAF Police go I doubt whether the Staish would be too impressed to find that the Corporal on the gate or the young Fg Off. has the power to tell heim/her to swivel as no person shall interfere with the autonomy of the Police and all that (Quote by Lord Denning when the Government tried to tell the Police how to run the show)......so in answer to the question how this would affect the rest of us, well there's your answer, greatly.
As far as the effects on the general bods such ourselves. no difference really as ultimately we are all subject to Air Force Law and therefore are Policed by the RAF Police, like it or not.
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All,
I believe that this chap may be sprouting the truth. Look at Brize, they have already shut (scaled down) the Thames Valley police station and the RAF police are used on a regular basis on civilian matters. Whether this is a good or bad measure I have no idea, but I bet this is presented in the Civil Service Performance Indicators (?????!!!) as an increase in the police force with no added cost!!
I believe that this chap may be sprouting the truth. Look at Brize, they have already shut (scaled down) the Thames Valley police station and the RAF police are used on a regular basis on civilian matters. Whether this is a good or bad measure I have no idea, but I bet this is presented in the Civil Service Performance Indicators (?????!!!) as an increase in the police force with no added cost!!
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Well sh@g me old boots 19 yr old spotty A/Cpl sorting out local domestics can't wait to see that . What will they think of next DLS helping out CPS!!! or maybet Crewman on Green goddess's helping out the firemen. In fact a new idea for retention problems why don't we pay our hardest working aircrew peanuts and then offer them incentives to gain ATPL and CPL's now there's a thought
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Just a thought..
Down South (FI) the Mil Police section are all special constables for the FI government.
The RAF Provst Offr is an acting Sgt in the FI police for the duration of his tour. Honest guv!!
Perhaps this isn't such a wild rumour?
But still bl**dy worrying never the less!!!!!!
Cheers ADIS
Down South (FI) the Mil Police section are all special constables for the FI government.
The RAF Provst Offr is an acting Sgt in the FI police for the duration of his tour. Honest guv!!
Perhaps this isn't such a wild rumour?
But still bl**dy worrying never the less!!!!!!
Cheers ADIS
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Rude c'man. I normally just monitor this forum and enjoy the banter, but feel like have to check your blistering remarks re: A/Cpl RAF Police 19 spotty etc.I almost forgot that the 19 yr old Aircrew I meet are all thoroughly mature and superior beings.......... I think not, come to that there are some 30 something year old aircrew (of the few of that age who remain) who are far less mature and with less social & communication skills than the spotty 19 year old RAF Police NCO or many other enlisted ground crew staff I can think of....
'People in glass houses'.....ring a bell.?
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1771, get a grip chap...... are we upset as you see the rates the aircrew claim. Lets remember the organisation is the Royal Air Force, Air being the operative word, and it is the dog that wags the tail not the other way around.
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Haven't heard much about the original topic, but Rude C'man - did you hear about the Firefighters' strike in Merseyside ? (all the Green Goddesses were found wheel-less up on bricks and the fuel syphoned off !!!)
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It might be the Royal Air Force, but it should be called the Royal Accountants Force!
Money is always the main factor in any decision nowadays, not operational need or requirement. Or am I just twitter & bisted?
Money is always the main factor in any decision nowadays, not operational need or requirement. Or am I just twitter & bisted?
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Lowkey
I copied your post ref BZN/Carterton police and showed it to Inspector Saville (IC Carterton nick) earlier tonight. He was surprised to say the least. Whilst there is a 'working' relationship between the RAF Police and local feds, Thames Valley Police do not use RAF Cpls to do their work.
The local police figures are collected according to Home Office guidelines and the police are assessed in relation to rises/falls in certain types of crime. Carterton sector achieve their, generally, better than average figures using their own resources. It does help having a community that is more law abiding than the average, but RAF Police cannot help in the 40% clear up rate we have (against a TVP average of 25%). The nick is still open as a base for Carterton Sector, but police sign on and off in Witney.
TVP are not expecting to use the RAF in the near future if at all (from the horse's mouth).
I copied your post ref BZN/Carterton police and showed it to Inspector Saville (IC Carterton nick) earlier tonight. He was surprised to say the least. Whilst there is a 'working' relationship between the RAF Police and local feds, Thames Valley Police do not use RAF Cpls to do their work.
The local police figures are collected according to Home Office guidelines and the police are assessed in relation to rises/falls in certain types of crime. Carterton sector achieve their, generally, better than average figures using their own resources. It does help having a community that is more law abiding than the average, but RAF Police cannot help in the 40% clear up rate we have (against a TVP average of 25%). The nick is still open as a base for Carterton Sector, but police sign on and off in Witney.
TVP are not expecting to use the RAF in the near future if at all (from the horse's mouth).
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Rude
Being 19 years old and spotty are qualities inherent in a lot of people when they begin a career.
I think you'll find that an awful lot of civvie policemen started like that, they certainly did when I started some years ago. Fortunately the experience they gain in their first few years makes up for their lack of age. I expect the same is true of A/Cpl RAFPlod, whose duties are not entirely confined to locking the gates. Domestics are not the exclusive preserve of civilian housing estates after all.
If you want further examples of '19 and spotty made good', track one of the next OCF crewmen during his first couple of years, or look back at one of your own course photos and think of them now.
Being 19 years old and spotty are qualities inherent in a lot of people when they begin a career.
I think you'll find that an awful lot of civvie policemen started like that, they certainly did when I started some years ago. Fortunately the experience they gain in their first few years makes up for their lack of age. I expect the same is true of A/Cpl RAFPlod, whose duties are not entirely confined to locking the gates. Domestics are not the exclusive preserve of civilian housing estates after all.
If you want further examples of '19 and spotty made good', track one of the next OCF crewmen during his first couple of years, or look back at one of your own course photos and think of them now.
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At Waddo the feds have managed to blow their budget on a speed gun to reduce the number of accidents on base. Actually I can't think of one incident apart from when a MT bus reversed into the staish's car - how I laughed! I hope they carry out calibration checks every day before they use it as civi plod must - and they have to prove that they did it. Any one caught will face a ban from driving "on" camp depending on how far over the limit they are - more speed means longer ban - except ofcourse if you happen to be a MT driver who obviously needs to drive on camp! I suppose you could push your car on camp and drive it off - as it clearly staights that you can't drive "on".
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The Armed Forces Bill proposes various changes to the the law relating to the Service Police (including the RAF Police). Most of the proposed changes will simply place on a statutory footing many of the powers that are currently derived from a commanding officer's authority over the personnel and property under his command.
Far from extending constabulary powers to the Service Police, the Bill will simply clarify the position of the Service Police (ie that they do not have constabulary powers).
The Service Police are members of the armed forces first and police officers second. The nature of their duties, many of which vary considerably from those of the civilian police, mean that giving the Service Police constabulary powers would be of little value. Their powers over the community they police (ie the armed forces) are considerable and require no extension. The civilian powers of arrest conferred by Sections 24(4)&(5) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and the common law, are more than adequate for those circumstances where a Service Police officer would find it necessary to arrest a civilian.
The demarcation between the duties and jurisdiction of the civilian police and the RAF Police, means that most Police Flights have an excellent liaison with their local civilian police counterparts.
The same cannot generally be said of the MoD Police, who DO have constabulary powers, but who often come into conflict with their local Home Office police force. It is very significant that proposals in the aforesaid Armed Forces Bill to extend the powers of the MoD Police have now been scrapped. This was in spite of very heavy lobbying by the MoD Police Chief Constable, to push the changes through. Conversely, the proposals to clarify the powers of the Service Police have remained largely unchanged.
There will be no change to the chain of command under which the RAF Police operate. Indeed, it is one of the strengths of the RAF Police that their command chain contains a healthy mix of specialist and non-specialist officers (including aircrew). Many of the measures enforced by the RAF Police (eg road traffic speed controls) are carried out at the behest of station commanders (most of whom are, of course, aircrew officers).
Far from extending constabulary powers to the Service Police, the Bill will simply clarify the position of the Service Police (ie that they do not have constabulary powers).
The Service Police are members of the armed forces first and police officers second. The nature of their duties, many of which vary considerably from those of the civilian police, mean that giving the Service Police constabulary powers would be of little value. Their powers over the community they police (ie the armed forces) are considerable and require no extension. The civilian powers of arrest conferred by Sections 24(4)&(5) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and the common law, are more than adequate for those circumstances where a Service Police officer would find it necessary to arrest a civilian.
The demarcation between the duties and jurisdiction of the civilian police and the RAF Police, means that most Police Flights have an excellent liaison with their local civilian police counterparts.
The same cannot generally be said of the MoD Police, who DO have constabulary powers, but who often come into conflict with their local Home Office police force. It is very significant that proposals in the aforesaid Armed Forces Bill to extend the powers of the MoD Police have now been scrapped. This was in spite of very heavy lobbying by the MoD Police Chief Constable, to push the changes through. Conversely, the proposals to clarify the powers of the Service Police have remained largely unchanged.
There will be no change to the chain of command under which the RAF Police operate. Indeed, it is one of the strengths of the RAF Police that their command chain contains a healthy mix of specialist and non-specialist officers (including aircrew). Many of the measures enforced by the RAF Police (eg road traffic speed controls) are carried out at the behest of station commanders (most of whom are, of course, aircrew officers).