TCAS + Mil Aviation
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
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The other problem with installing TCAS in TACAIR aircraft is the lack of available real estate in the cockpit for another box. The TCAS systems that do exist are a fairly straightforward fit for cargo and similar aircraft but for TACAIR integration into the total avionics fit calls for lots of engineering labor hours (for labor hours read money).
Another collision avoidance system in existance is Automatic Dependent Surveillance. There are several flavors but the basic idea is that the airplane knows where it is (GPS, RNAV, inertial, whatever) and then transmits it to everyone or just some specific people on a data link. The receiver then knows where the transmiting aircraft is and through the miracle of electricity can but a blip on a screen or give a traffic alert at certain parameters etc. Problem is that like with TCAS unless everybody is equiped and operating you can't be sure you are going to be alerted to the presence of the oter aircraft.
As a civil operator I have run across low level routes that happened to be in use even when NOTAMs didn't say they were, and in any case when there are NOTAMs most times they are useless because it gives a route and a day, so I guess all civil aircraft should stay out of that airspace for the day...particularly galling on weekends, when the reserves do a lot of practice.
Another collision avoidance system in existance is Automatic Dependent Surveillance. There are several flavors but the basic idea is that the airplane knows where it is (GPS, RNAV, inertial, whatever) and then transmits it to everyone or just some specific people on a data link. The receiver then knows where the transmiting aircraft is and through the miracle of electricity can but a blip on a screen or give a traffic alert at certain parameters etc. Problem is that like with TCAS unless everybody is equiped and operating you can't be sure you are going to be alerted to the presence of the oter aircraft.
As a civil operator I have run across low level routes that happened to be in use even when NOTAMs didn't say they were, and in any case when there are NOTAMs most times they are useless because it gives a route and a day, so I guess all civil aircraft should stay out of that airspace for the day...particularly galling on weekends, when the reserves do a lot of practice.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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TCAS on the C130-J works and it is great!!!
It actually creates more lookout and SA.
Worth every penny as the fleet has had to use it in anger on several occasions already.
8.33 - no probs, now just waiting for the RVSM calibration (oh yes and the FM stuff!!!)
"happiness is 70 tons and a HUD!"
It actually creates more lookout and SA.
Worth every penny as the fleet has had to use it in anger on several occasions already.
8.33 - no probs, now just waiting for the RVSM calibration (oh yes and the FM stuff!!!)
"happiness is 70 tons and a HUD!"
WHAT?? Are you really saying that the C130Joke came without FM-immunity compliant VHF communications and navigation receivers?? Even though it was well know that AWN84 was going to make them mandatory?
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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You got it!!!!
Our lords and masters (and contract writers) turned it down - i am led to believe.
You know the story about upgrades rather than replacements!
Anyway we probably payed extra to have it taken out!!!!
Just as well the gulf has nice weather coz we are there all the time.
Our lords and masters (and contract writers) turned it down - i am led to believe.
You know the story about upgrades rather than replacements!
Anyway we probably payed extra to have it taken out!!!!
Just as well the gulf has nice weather coz we are there all the time.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Total Obscurity
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Having flown with TCAS regularly, you'll never want to fly without it again. You feel naked. Its bloody good. A bit like SKE but there's a damn sight more a/c with the transponders.
Hi Fergi, how are you doin'? Husband of VP/HR.
Hi Fergi, how are you doin'? Husband of VP/HR.
A reminder to everyone at low level. TCAS is not generally fitted to any of the charity funded HEMS helos in the UK. Especially those helos operating in the fast jet region. Most HEMS sorties are short and generally involve a landing and takeoff through a fast jet route.
In 2 years flying in this area I've seen lots of you in time. I just hope you see me!
In 2 years flying in this area I've seen lots of you in time. I just hope you see me!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Thanks Albert - I feel embarassed now for not taking the time to search it out myself.
Bertie T - I agree. I've seen loads too and heard as many on uniform and never seen them.
It worries me that TDAs seem to get busted and HEMS/Police operators seem to have their necks on the line too.
Now I know why SAR birds are painted that rather baby pooh shade of yellow.
My question to the grown ups in the MOD would be if TCAS saved the loss of one Tornado/Tucano/Harrier/Hawk...+ crew would that not pay for TCAS in all their a/c.
Reminds me of a story of a pilot long lining in a forest, took off and found himself in formation (briefly) with the red arrows.
Bertie T - I agree. I've seen loads too and heard as many on uniform and never seen them.
It worries me that TDAs seem to get busted and HEMS/Police operators seem to have their necks on the line too.
Now I know why SAR birds are painted that rather baby pooh shade of yellow.
My question to the grown ups in the MOD would be if TCAS saved the loss of one Tornado/Tucano/Harrier/Hawk...+ crew would that not pay for TCAS in all their a/c.
Reminds me of a story of a pilot long lining in a forest, took off and found himself in formation (briefly) with the red arrows.
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This january i experienced the following scenario while working our radar position: One of the a/c on the freq, a RoNoAF Bell-412SP flying VFR night L/L on goggels (below TMA, G airspace), I had no other reported traffic and informed the pilot of that when he req FIS. I allso had an FPL on a USAF MC-130 enroute L/L from Alta/ENAT. Suddenly the helo pilot cried out that a blacked out Herc had just passed below him, and that he himself was at 300ft AGL. (Everyone that have visited us know the limited radar coverage L/L btw 
)
The Herc checked in about 5 mins later, he had not seen a thing.
TCAS...... why bother.....
)The Herc checked in about 5 mins later, he had not seen a thing.
TCAS...... why bother.....
TCAS, why bother..You got to be kidding?
I would rather give up an engine than the metal detector flying in and out of GA crazy places like S. California.
I would rather give up an engine than the metal detector flying in and out of GA crazy places like S. California.
TCAS on FJs
There is no TCAS fitted to any current fast jets (FJs) in the world. Even F22, F35, M2000-5, Rafale, Gripen and Typhoon aren't toted to be fitted with it - Question recently asked to all the manufacturers at Farnboro' and Paris.
Why? - It doesn't work! With the 30,000' per minute climb rates, high speeds and quick changes of direction by FJs, the TCAS would false alarm a lot. Hence, the UK Airprox Board is often troubled with TCAS RAs and TAs from airliners with FJs working in close proximity - but never in danger of colliding! (Plus the heroic TCAS obviously saves them!). The formation issue is also valid. The GR4 is being trialled with CWS (Collision Warning System) but I believe that QinetiQ/BAES are having problems with it.
If anyone knows of a working FJ TCAS then please let the MOD know!
LJ
Why? - It doesn't work! With the 30,000' per minute climb rates, high speeds and quick changes of direction by FJs, the TCAS would false alarm a lot. Hence, the UK Airprox Board is often troubled with TCAS RAs and TAs from airliners with FJs working in close proximity - but never in danger of colliding! (Plus the heroic TCAS obviously saves them!). The formation issue is also valid. The GR4 is being trialled with CWS (Collision Warning System) but I believe that QinetiQ/BAES are having problems with it.
If anyone knows of a working FJ TCAS then please let the MOD know!
LJ
Excuse my ignorance to equipment on fast jets, but as a civvie driver, I was wondering if your (as you term it) one or two seat FJs have radar intercept capabilities, surely that would avoid most if not all TA/RA incidents with us. If you have it, use it. I know you guys like sneaking around as covertly as possible, but in the advent of near misses and incidents, prudence should demand that your radar system should pick up civilian a/c and allow your drivers to maintain separation based on the information available to you. I may be completely wrong. (don't bite my head off, I'm just asking)
I for one am glad you are up here sharing the airspace, I don't mind seeing you guys passing us with your hair on fire anyday.
I for one am glad you are up here sharing the airspace, I don't mind seeing you guys passing us with your hair on fire anyday.
