Lightning Down At FAOB

[midman]

A dreadful tragedy for the pilot and his family. Obviously a very talented test pilot and a great loss to South African aviation.

[midman]

Regarding the ejection, he would have had little time at low level to do quite a lot. In the event that the seat wouldn't fire, he'd have to diagnose that the canopy was the problem. Then he'd have to jettison the canopy, and repull the handle. If that still failed, he'd have to manually separate from the seat, climb over the side and bale out. An awful lot to do in an aircraft at low level with little/no control.

Very much secondary to the human loss, it's also sad to see the loss of a beautiful aircraft. I had many enjoyable flights in that very machine.

[D120A]

Quite right Midman. Pilot's Notes for the Lightning T5 state (as amended in 1973):

"During an ejection attempt, if the canopy fails to jettison after both seat firing handles have been pulled, it is likely that the canopy jettison system is faulty; in this event use the normal opening handle to remove the canopy."

That's an awful lot of lateral thinking to be done at low altitude with faltering controllability, and with no Duty Pilot in the tower with all the books on hand and able to offer instant advice.

Rest in Peace David Stock; you will not be forgotten by the Lightning fraternity.

[MightyGem]

A sad event. Richard Branson flew with him a couple of yeas ago in a climb to height record attempt:
Richard Branson's co-pilot dies after jet ejector seat fails during air show | Mail Online

Although I'm not quite sure why they call him Richard Branson's co-pilot.

[cessnapete]

SA Lightning T5

Recent photos taken of aircraft during display show a lower engine tailpipe fire on, or shortly after take-off. Fire burnt through to tailplane jack rendering aircraft unflyable. then reported ejection failure.

[BEagle]

I wondered about that - several of the photos show a small trail of smoke or vapour from the region of the lower jetpipe on take-off. Not being a WIWOL, I didn't know whether this was normal (e.g. oil breather of some sort) or abnormal.

The whole sad event is an utter tragedy.

[dakkg651]

Looks like a repeat of the George Aird accident without the happy ending.

What a tragic loss this is.

Perhaps the CAA were right after all!

[Diablo Rouge]

Perhaps the CAA were right after all!

I have read here & elsewhere that if the Tbird canopy does not detach the seat will not fire, and that a drill for manual release exists; but of course actions take time and he was on his own. The success of the S.A. Thunder City organisation (in terms of hours flown and business attributes) must have caused the CAA one or two headaches when it came to justifying refusing civvy fast jets a license, and even now, I believe that the stats are no more a risk then general aviation, and indeed probably less for you cannot treat such machines with nonchallence.

This is quite simply a tragedy, but almost certainly one within 'Normal operating risk', and not one that the CAA can jump on shouting "We told you so".

[Snapshot]

Dave Stock Tribute

Gentlemen and perhaps ladies,

It is public knowledge now that on Sunday at Dave's house, in Hermanus
there shall be a celebration of his life! (and what a life)
This I am told shall be from 1500-2300

I am aware that many live far from Hermanus and might like to attend?
This being almost holiday season, getting a place to stay might
be difficult?

His home is just a couple of minutes drive from where I am in Hermanus
so, if anyone would like to stow their kit, go to his home, meet
and pay tribute etc. stay over at mine on Sunday night etc.
Then anyone is welcome! If it eases a bit of stress on what shall
be a difficult enough day then I am glad if I can help a bit!

I have limited beds but plenty of floor space, sofa, sleeper couch
and the usual! I can take about 10 but can adjust a bit
should the situation require just that?
Sleeping bags would be useful!

I would ask if you would like to do this, then please PM me
and also would prefer no one here before 1200 on Sunday!
From there you can shower, change, relax a bit etc. before
going to the house for 1500

I am going to post this on other boards so please take note
this is a first come first serve type offer! If I had a 400 room
hotel, then I assure you, it would be open to everyone!

Fly safe and I trust Sunday is truly a fitting tribute
to Dave Stock!

Regards
AB
'Snapshot'

[setchell]

Celebration of Dave Stock's life

I am at present on holiday in Cape Town from the UK and heard of the tragic news of Dave's death just before I left. Having spent an unforgettable day of flying with him in the Lightening a few years ago. I would very much like to join in your proposed celebration of his life this coming Sunday. Can I trouble you please to send me any details of the day: time, address etc and format for the day (if any).

I should be most grateful for your help.

Stephen Setchell (021-789-2933)

[Sky Sports]

R.I.P Dave......... and the aircraft.

[BOAC]

The canopy 'clearance' was required for all marks of Lightning due to the heavy metal reinforcement in the top. There was a sad fatal (1966 I think) from Wattisham where an ejection failed due to a stuck canopy, and in the subsequent !FORCED LANDING! the seat ejected from the INTACT aircraft when the canopy was released by a bump in the field in which it had crashed. A valiant effort which resulted in the death of the pilot. One puzzle here (to sidetrack this sad thread) is why the ejection drills were not changed until 1973.

[curvedsky]

Lightning canopy restrictor mechanism

A February 1962 copy of Lightning F1 Pilot's Notes states:

"Normal operation of the seat

When either firing handle is operated the canopy is jettisoned immediately and removes a restrictor from the time-delay firing unit. After a delay of one second the seat is ejected and the drogue gun, which is operated by a static rod, fires half a second later ......

NOTE: The seat cannot eject if the hood fails to jettison."

[D120A]

Similar wording to curvedsky's quote can be found in the Pilot's Notes (Part 1 Chapter 12) for both the F6 and the T5 at the end of their RAF service. Some words are subtly different compared with the early F1 sample above ("interdictor" for "restrictor", and "canopy" for "hood" in the 'NOTE' line), and the times have changed (F6, canopy depart to seat fire is 0.6 seconds, on the T5 it is only 0.4 seconds).

The 1973 amendment to the canopy jettison procedure, which I quoted in my post above, appears in Part 1 Chapter 9. BOAC is right; if the 1966 accident was the reason for the amendment, 7 years is an awful long time. Could there have been another accident in the early 70s, when someone ejected successfully after a canopy stuck and they got rid of it by using the normal operating handle? I am afraid that's a few years before my involvement with the Lightning began, but somebody may remember.

[JEM60]

What a lovely offer, Snapshot. I never knew Mr. Stock, but appreciated his flying when I went to Overburg four years ago, and also visited his[and your] wonderful town. Myself, and all the other enthusiasts who have visited Thunder City from England, will be thinking of him,and his family,and I would be grateful if you would forward our condolences to them. I am certain I speak on behalf of all Airshow spectators here.

[Double Zero]

I seem to recall reading of a fair few hairy moments with Lightning seats, including a chap who felt his seat go ' click ' and move a fraction on the rail, resulting in a very ginger return & landing in what must have been a pretty awful time for him.

One thing; NOT apportioning blame or anything like it, but as Lightnings were notorious for jetpipe / lower fuselage fires, I wonder if a clued up Lightning person in the tower may have been able to see the smoke mentioned & transmit a warning, giving more time ?

Sadly irrelevant now, unless it should be thought worth adopting this practice in future ( sod's law of course is that the next problem will be completely different ).

[D120A]

The Lightning's fire warning system was pretty good, and generally would set the Standard Warning Panel going before any external signs of fire became visible, even to a formating aircraft. The system was activated when the Instrument Master Switch was on, and its serviceability was tested via a button on the SWP during pre-flight checks.

Which is why I am puzzled about reports and photographic evidence of external smoke and fire when the pilot's radio transmissions were apparently about hydraulic problems.

[Lightning5]

All Lightnings required the canopy to leave the aircraft prior to ejection. A cable was attached to the canopy that allowed the seat cartridge to fire once the canopy was clear of the aircraft. If my memory serves me, the 1966 (?) accident was caused by a defect with said cable.

[BEagle]

D120A, the photos I saw showed a small, light coloured plume in the vicinity of the bottom of the lower jetpipe early in the flight. As I said, I didn't know whether or not that was normal.

Later photos taken immediately before the accident show a much longer, light coloured trail from the same area.

I haven't seen anything which looks like fire - that would surely be evident as black smoke? Maybe the reports of 'fire' were actually observations of reheat on take-off?

Did the Lightning have a dual redundant powered flying control hydraulic system - or would a massive hydraulic leak lead to complete loss of pitch control? Was there any manual reversion?

[soddim]

There was no manual reversion but there were two independent hydraulic systems powering the flying controls. If both failed there was no control. The loss of control cases where fire was the primary cause were usually due to damage to control linkages.