Navy aviation
Guest
Posts: n/a
Navy aviation
The application for the AIB is away and i'm awaiting the nod to go to Gosport. In the meantime has anyone out there done this and do they have any hints/tip etc about the day and what I can expect so I can start sharpening up. I have a few general questions about some stuff: What is the difference between Army/Navy/Air av? What is life like in tha Nav? How easy/difficult is it to get onto FA2? How true are the rumours that there are nearly no pilots in the nav?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Blammo,
I have just posted a reply to your question on my thread, my advice is do a search on the forums firstly. I actually have a large amount of literature and info I have acquired so if you have any other questions drop us an e-mail!
To answer your questions in brief. The difference between the three services air element is what field they are used in. What I mean by this is, the RAF, being the main Air element provides ground attack, air defence, intercept, refuel, transport, AEW, insertion and extraction capability to both itself, and the other two forces. The Army Air Corp and Marine element of the Fleet Air Arm (847NAS) are there primarily to support the troops on the ground with close air support by giving a capability to find and kill tanks and troops and supply columns. The Fleet Air Arm, in essence is there to protect the fleet and along with the embarked element of the other forces provide extended range, first on scene, air power that can protect both the fleet and the amphibious forces going ashore. The FAA has Insertion and Extraction capability, ASW, AEW and transport capabilities aswell as the CAS provided by the Marines, the FA2 also provides the fleet with Fighter protection and is also fully capable of the ground attack role thanks to good old Blue vixen.
The Army Air Corp and the Fleet Air Arm have no need for dedicated ground attack aircraft or large scale, high up AWACS aircraft like the sentry (although the FAA does have good AEW used to find surface skimming aircraft hiding from the ships radar), and to an extent Airborne Refuelling, because it is provided by the RAF. But the FAA needs the ability to protect the fleet from air attack, sea skimming missiles, surface threats and those sneaky subs, thus, it has the aircraft that can perform these roles, the AAC needs to be able to protect its troops, kill tanks and reconnoitre, thus the same applies, of course this is a simplified answer to a rather complex question.
Please remember this is just my initial thought on the question, and I'm in a hurry, so If I get it wrong I apologise.
how easy is it to get onto the FA2? Well, its not easy, not at all, but I would say there is an element of how hard you are prepared to work for it. If you have the dedication, will power, ability and skill, I don't see why you can't do it, its where I'm aiming. Its a job that needs rapid thought, brain power, lots of flying skill and quick and accurate judgment.
Lastly, the Navy is low on pilots, but it is low on observers too, and chefs and chaplains, its a general manpower problem from what I hear (again if I'm wrong please put me right), but I do think the Aircrew side is a little more desperate than the rest of the service. I believe the problem is that people are not making it through the intensive courses. But just because they are low on pilots I don't see them dropping the standards to get in, or get onto the FA2.
Anyway, must dash pronto, so I hope this helps, good luck!
Rusty.
P.S all thoughts expressed above are R.C's initial reaction to a quite complex set of questions, he would like to apologies for any discrepancies or offences made, he will post a better reply on his return, thank you, *here ends legalese*
.
Edited to make smilies work!
[This message has been edited by Rusty Cessna (edited 06 July 2001).]
I have just posted a reply to your question on my thread, my advice is do a search on the forums firstly. I actually have a large amount of literature and info I have acquired so if you have any other questions drop us an e-mail!
To answer your questions in brief. The difference between the three services air element is what field they are used in. What I mean by this is, the RAF, being the main Air element provides ground attack, air defence, intercept, refuel, transport, AEW, insertion and extraction capability to both itself, and the other two forces. The Army Air Corp and Marine element of the Fleet Air Arm (847NAS) are there primarily to support the troops on the ground with close air support by giving a capability to find and kill tanks and troops and supply columns. The Fleet Air Arm, in essence is there to protect the fleet and along with the embarked element of the other forces provide extended range, first on scene, air power that can protect both the fleet and the amphibious forces going ashore. The FAA has Insertion and Extraction capability, ASW, AEW and transport capabilities aswell as the CAS provided by the Marines, the FA2 also provides the fleet with Fighter protection and is also fully capable of the ground attack role thanks to good old Blue vixen.
The Army Air Corp and the Fleet Air Arm have no need for dedicated ground attack aircraft or large scale, high up AWACS aircraft like the sentry (although the FAA does have good AEW used to find surface skimming aircraft hiding from the ships radar), and to an extent Airborne Refuelling, because it is provided by the RAF. But the FAA needs the ability to protect the fleet from air attack, sea skimming missiles, surface threats and those sneaky subs, thus, it has the aircraft that can perform these roles, the AAC needs to be able to protect its troops, kill tanks and reconnoitre, thus the same applies, of course this is a simplified answer to a rather complex question.
Please remember this is just my initial thought on the question, and I'm in a hurry, so If I get it wrong I apologise.
how easy is it to get onto the FA2? Well, its not easy, not at all, but I would say there is an element of how hard you are prepared to work for it. If you have the dedication, will power, ability and skill, I don't see why you can't do it, its where I'm aiming. Its a job that needs rapid thought, brain power, lots of flying skill and quick and accurate judgment.
Lastly, the Navy is low on pilots, but it is low on observers too, and chefs and chaplains, its a general manpower problem from what I hear (again if I'm wrong please put me right), but I do think the Aircrew side is a little more desperate than the rest of the service. I believe the problem is that people are not making it through the intensive courses. But just because they are low on pilots I don't see them dropping the standards to get in, or get onto the FA2.
Anyway, must dash pronto, so I hope this helps, good luck!
Rusty.
P.S all thoughts expressed above are R.C's initial reaction to a quite complex set of questions, he would like to apologies for any discrepancies or offences made, he will post a better reply on his return, thank you, *here ends legalese*
.Edited to make smilies work!
[This message has been edited by Rusty Cessna (edited 06 July 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Blammo
There is really not much to say about the AIB which has not been said in the lit your liason officer will have given you. If you passsed your Pilot and Observer tests and have been put forward as a pilot, you should have no trouble with the testing. Learn your RN kit though. Scour the newspapers and pick up on international and domestic news that may affect the UK's interests, focusing obviously on the security aspect. Get out a World atlas, identify, locate and read up on the countries that you may have read about in the news (in a broadsheet!). Be able to point these nations/areas out on the map and formulate some sensible opinions on these issues. Also, if you are not naturally cultured, at least have some cultural knowledge, i.e. music, the arts e.t.c. Remember, a career in the RN often requires Officers interact with all levels of society including statesmen and Royalty and you need to give a good account of yourself and most importantly the RN and Blighty!
On your practical leadership tests, be positive, alert and never give up! When you are leading-lead, when you are a teamember, be a team member! Do not try and dominate an activity if you are not the leader, no one likes a tosser including the board. However, this is not to say that you can not be a constructive team member and offer ideas if the leader starts ballsing things up.
Very best of luck to you. You will not meet a finer bunch of chaps than in the RN.
Just a final word of caution. I joined BRNC last May with the intention of having a flying career and then command of a ship. I was put forward as a pilot, but failed the final selection. My liason officer said that what let me down were not my aptitude test scores, but my AIB scores- I got 550, apparantly you needed 570 to be assured of a slot. He told me I could either go back to the board and try to get a higher pass or I could join as a Warfare Officer and sub-specialise as a pilot later on.
As I wanted a longer career in the RN, I joined as a Warfare Officer.
On my second day at Dartmouth, my DO was looking through my file and saw that I had been a commercial pilot before I joined the RN and asked if I wanted to transfer to flying duties, which of course I did.
A month later the same DO casually informed me that I was to old, by two months to be precise, as they had "just changed the upper age limit on pilot training". This of course was news to me and as I left two years worth of airline seniority, turbine time and friends back in the US, I was a little crushed, to say the least. I now live in Florida and am getting ready to start training on the CRJ for a Delta subsidiary at the old age of 26!
The moral of the story is not to trust anything that the RN tells you during the recruiting process. Insist on a pilot slot if that is what you want.
If you get that precious slot, it should be superb. BRNC is challenging, but a bloody good laugh.
Good luck shipmate!
[This message has been edited by CAVU (edited 06 July 2001).]
There is really not much to say about the AIB which has not been said in the lit your liason officer will have given you. If you passsed your Pilot and Observer tests and have been put forward as a pilot, you should have no trouble with the testing. Learn your RN kit though. Scour the newspapers and pick up on international and domestic news that may affect the UK's interests, focusing obviously on the security aspect. Get out a World atlas, identify, locate and read up on the countries that you may have read about in the news (in a broadsheet!). Be able to point these nations/areas out on the map and formulate some sensible opinions on these issues. Also, if you are not naturally cultured, at least have some cultural knowledge, i.e. music, the arts e.t.c. Remember, a career in the RN often requires Officers interact with all levels of society including statesmen and Royalty and you need to give a good account of yourself and most importantly the RN and Blighty!
On your practical leadership tests, be positive, alert and never give up! When you are leading-lead, when you are a teamember, be a team member! Do not try and dominate an activity if you are not the leader, no one likes a tosser including the board. However, this is not to say that you can not be a constructive team member and offer ideas if the leader starts ballsing things up.
Very best of luck to you. You will not meet a finer bunch of chaps than in the RN.
Just a final word of caution. I joined BRNC last May with the intention of having a flying career and then command of a ship. I was put forward as a pilot, but failed the final selection. My liason officer said that what let me down were not my aptitude test scores, but my AIB scores- I got 550, apparantly you needed 570 to be assured of a slot. He told me I could either go back to the board and try to get a higher pass or I could join as a Warfare Officer and sub-specialise as a pilot later on.
As I wanted a longer career in the RN, I joined as a Warfare Officer.
On my second day at Dartmouth, my DO was looking through my file and saw that I had been a commercial pilot before I joined the RN and asked if I wanted to transfer to flying duties, which of course I did.
A month later the same DO casually informed me that I was to old, by two months to be precise, as they had "just changed the upper age limit on pilot training". This of course was news to me and as I left two years worth of airline seniority, turbine time and friends back in the US, I was a little crushed, to say the least. I now live in Florida and am getting ready to start training on the CRJ for a Delta subsidiary at the old age of 26!
The moral of the story is not to trust anything that the RN tells you during the recruiting process. Insist on a pilot slot if that is what you want.
If you get that precious slot, it should be superb. BRNC is challenging, but a bloody good laugh.
Good luck shipmate!
[This message has been edited by CAVU (edited 06 July 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
CAVU has made some interesting points - I had no idea that we had changed our upper age limit. As someone at the Front Line I find it astonishing that we are turning down people already qualified! I know of someone who rejoined earlier this year who was nearer 30....
Anyway, "the nav" is what Crab navigators are usually called. The Royal Navy is normally referred to as "Pusser". And anything within is a "Pussers ....."
We are critically short of FA2 pilots and Lynx Pilots and Observers. The FA2 pipeline is long (4 years ish?). If you want it, go for it.
Best of luck.
TB.
Anyway, "the nav" is what Crab navigators are usually called. The Royal Navy is normally referred to as "Pusser". And anything within is a "Pussers ....."
We are critically short of FA2 pilots and Lynx Pilots and Observers. The FA2 pipeline is long (4 years ish?). If you want it, go for it.
Best of luck.
TB.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have fond memories of a trip in one of Pusser's cabs many years ago - in the 'Looker's' seat of a 'Vixen in 1966.
But the guys on the then 892 knew that, sadly, the days of our 'real' carriers were numbered and CVA01 was looking unlikely - so they all advised me to join HM's 'Crabfats' rather than 'Pusser'. Best of luck and hope you get FA2 and then JSF!!
But the guys on the then 892 knew that, sadly, the days of our 'real' carriers were numbered and CVA01 was looking unlikely - so they all advised me to join HM's 'Crabfats' rather than 'Pusser'. Best of luck and hope you get FA2 and then JSF!!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Problemchild
Didn't know you could get out before the 12 years was up. I thought I would be in for the long haul. What is the minimum service for stick wagglers?
Many Ta's for the pic snappers, made the lab a wee bit brighter and pissed the boss off a littie bit more
Didn't know you could get out before the 12 years was up. I thought I would be in for the long haul. What is the minimum service for stick wagglers?
Many Ta's for the pic snappers, made the lab a wee bit brighter and pissed the boss off a littie bit more
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Wherever the nearest braai is?
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blammo,
the photographs on PPRuNe look cr@p because I reduce the file size to aid download times.
I have e-mailed you three photographs similar to above, each much better quality scans. Put them onto your desktop, annoy your 'Boss' more and NEVER lose sight of what you want!
'It is better to attempt great things - even if sometime we fail.
Rather than sit on the sidelines of life'.
Snaps
the photographs on PPRuNe look cr@p because I reduce the file size to aid download times.
I have e-mailed you three photographs similar to above, each much better quality scans. Put them onto your desktop, annoy your 'Boss' more and NEVER lose sight of what you want!
'It is better to attempt great things - even if sometime we fail.
Rather than sit on the sidelines of life'.
Snaps
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Red Red Back to Bed
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blammo,
Be certain to check the new career regs - I dont think you can sign on for only 8 years - the minimum for aircrew has always been 12, and the career structure has recently changed.
Flying for the Pusser is very challenging and rewarding and well worth it (especially whilst still young).
Email Bad Livin - he knows the full score !
Good Luck.
Be certain to check the new career regs - I dont think you can sign on for only 8 years - the minimum for aircrew has always been 12, and the career structure has recently changed.
Flying for the Pusser is very challenging and rewarding and well worth it (especially whilst still young).
Email Bad Livin - he knows the full score !
Good Luck.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Wherever the nearest braai is?
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al Titude,
nearly mate, found this one lurking low level!
Snaps www.AvCollect.com www.BlackburnBuccaneer.co.uk
nearly mate, found this one lurking low level!
Snaps www.AvCollect.com www.BlackburnBuccaneer.co.uk
Guest
Posts: n/a
Blammo, OA is right - initial commission is 12 years, although your minimum return of service (6yrs for SHAR drivers, 5 for Obs and heli pilots) which must be made after completion of OFT may not end up being much less than that really! Best of luck. Best move I ever made was banging out of crabforce alpha and joining the SENIOR service!!!
Rgds
BL
Rgds
BL
Yes, Him
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blammo,
Its a corruption of Purser.
Rick Jolly's excellent Guide to Navy Slang "Jackspeak" is worth getting hold of if you're joining the Andrew, you might be able to understand what they're shouting at you.
A few examples;
Pusser's Camel--WREN
Pusser's Duck--Walrus
Pusser's Tally--Fictitious name
Its a corruption of Purser.
Rick Jolly's excellent Guide to Navy Slang "Jackspeak" is worth getting hold of if you're joining the Andrew, you might be able to understand what they're shouting at you.
A few examples;
Pusser's Camel--WREN
Pusser's Duck--Walrus
Pusser's Tally--Fictitious name
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stumbled across The Sun in the crew room today and viewed with awe the advert to become one of the RN's finest stovie pilots (wasn't tempted).
It's a pity the shiny arses we pay to do our PR and recruiting don't know the difference between an FA2 and a GR7.
Nice one!
It's a pity the shiny arses we pay to do our PR and recruiting don't know the difference between an FA2 and a GR7.
Nice one!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Better Livin, cheers - no, an Observer, though I would have taken Warfare (HAHAHA)...just waiting now to confirm either Sep or Jan entry, Have you started back on the yellow terror yet? Sad to find out one of your multi-number has been struck down already. Hope you are all well, may be seeing you next week at a secret Lincolnshire training establishment...
Best Rgds
BL
Edited for Spelingggg
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: bad livin' ]
Best Rgds
BL
Edited for Spelingggg
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: bad livin' ]
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Eastern Alberta
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bad Livin'
I don't know who you think I am.......!!
Q
1. What's the 'yellow terror'?
2. One of my multi-number struck down?
What code are you speaking? Still across the pond and won't be back until Christmas, so probably won't be at any Lincolnshire bases next week (thank God.)
Regards!
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: better livin ]
I don't know who you think I am.......!!
Q
1. What's the 'yellow terror'?
2. One of my multi-number struck down?
What code are you speaking? Still across the pond and won't be back until Christmas, so probably won't be at any Lincolnshire bases next week (thank God.)
Regards!
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: better livin ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hmm neither am I now, would that be the NFTC pond or the PC9 pond group (which I gather is now smaller be one?!?) I suspect the former. Hope you're having fun anyway.
Why not clear up this fantastic puzzle and email direct? [email protected]
(yeah yeah)
Rgds!
BL
Why not clear up this fantastic puzzle and email direct? [email protected]
(yeah yeah)
Rgds!
BL