Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
If what is written is true, it suggests that a whistleblower has come forward to claim that it was an inside job.
I've been following the thread, and if I didn't see it raised here.
I've been following the thread, and if I didn't see it raised here.
I read that too. There is one prominent poster who claims it was an inside job but he doesn't post under the name Eyres. Sounds like a loony to me.
Purdey - No reply?
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Chinook
Dervish. As I have made clear before, I have no access to the original documents. My comments were based on the (very) many posts relating to this topic, which led to my summary at 5301. Shall we stop this endless repetition now? Regards JP
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You reopened this particular can JP in your 7095. If you wish to close it again, fine by me.
Whether you accept it or not. RB was prevented from giving evidence to the BOI and strongly discouraged from cooperating with the original accident investigation.
Or are you saying Sqn Ldr Burke was dishonest?
Whether you accept it or not. RB was prevented from giving evidence to the BOI and strongly discouraged from cooperating with the original accident investigation.
Or are you saying Sqn Ldr Burke was dishonest?
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I believe S/L B was ordered to desist aiding the AAIB. This was done by someone he knew and respected, who gave no apparent reason but made it clear it was a direct order.
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You never comment on Sqn Ldr Burke, because you know that the combination of Burden of Proof and his evidence, blows the Gross Negligence verdict clean out of the water.
JP
Do keep up. Sqn Ldr Burke was prevented from giving evidence to the BOI, allowing W&D to impose their iniquitous overriding of the BOI's findings. The cabal of stars has been unable to prevent this evidence subsequently becoming public. No contradiction whatsoever.
Let us see what the independant forthcoming enquiry concludes; it is difficult to see how it could differ from every other subsequent investigation (e.g. the HOL hearing).
Whether those responsible for the debacle which characterised the airworthiness issues will ever issue the grovelling apology required remains to be seen, it appears so far they have no sense of shame.
Do keep up. Sqn Ldr Burke was prevented from giving evidence to the BOI, allowing W&D to impose their iniquitous overriding of the BOI's findings. The cabal of stars has been unable to prevent this evidence subsequently becoming public. No contradiction whatsoever.
Let us see what the independant forthcoming enquiry concludes; it is difficult to see how it could differ from every other subsequent investigation (e.g. the HOL hearing).
Whether those responsible for the debacle which characterised the airworthiness issues will ever issue the grovelling apology required remains to be seen, it appears so far they have no sense of shame.
dalek,
I think that JP sees a contradiction in the fact that S/L Burke was ordered not to give evidence at the BOI. He appears to have felt free of that restriction at the the much later time of the HoL inquiry. So his evidence is in the public domain and there is no contradiction.
Yet another barrister type trick from JP in an attempt to weaken his opponents case, methinks.
I think that JP sees a contradiction in the fact that S/L Burke was ordered not to give evidence at the BOI. He appears to have felt free of that restriction at the the much later time of the HoL inquiry. So his evidence is in the public domain and there is no contradiction.
Yet another barrister type trick from JP in an attempt to weaken his opponents case, methinks.
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Before we get bogged down all over again, I would like to draw your attention to a statement, published by ACM Wratten on 15 Jun 2000, in which he attempts to defend the findings made by AM Day, which were subsequently endorsed by Wratten himself.
Wratten states:
I suggest that there is therefore doubt, even in his own mind, as to what occurred, and this opinion is strengthened by another sentence within the same statement:
Given that the standard of proof required to find deceased aircrew 'Negligent' is, as we know, "beyond any doubt whatsoever", and that Wratten himself, in these two example instances, voices his opinion that there is doubt, Lord Philip can only come to one conclusion - that the verdicts of 'Gross Negligence' must be quashed.
Wratten states:
without the irrefutable evidence of an ADR and a CVR, there is inevitably a degree of speculation as to the precise detail of the sequence of events in the minutes and seconds immediately prior to impact
Why they therefore elected to ignore the safe options open to them and pursue the one imposing the ultimate danger, we shall never know.
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You don't have to rely on niceties, decent analysis cuts down so many points of their arguments – for one example, remember the “inappropriate rate of climb” bit?:
I fine it strange that not one of you aviators shot that down in flames very simply;
ever watched hang-gliders?;
taking even the most conservative value for the wind on the slopes, the upward vertical component of that wind accounts easily for the height gain between the last altitude update and the point of impact;
there was no rate of climb appropriate for a cruise climb – there was no rate of climb at all;
this ties in with the engines at a matched intermediate power and the calculated reduction in airspeed over the last leg;
they were coasting in and yet were utterly surprised by their proximity to the ground.
Just one point.
The whole truth is attainable – but needs an attitude change to get there.
I fine it strange that not one of you aviators shot that down in flames very simply;
ever watched hang-gliders?;
taking even the most conservative value for the wind on the slopes, the upward vertical component of that wind accounts easily for the height gain between the last altitude update and the point of impact;
there was no rate of climb appropriate for a cruise climb – there was no rate of climb at all;
this ties in with the engines at a matched intermediate power and the calculated reduction in airspeed over the last leg;
they were coasting in and yet were utterly surprised by their proximity to the ground.
Just one point.
The whole truth is attainable – but needs an attitude change to get there.
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Walter has always been spot on with his last point.
A 15 to 25 kt tailwind striking a cliff face will cause compression and updraft.
This will give an increase of speed and also considerable updraft causing a high ROC.
It will also generate vortices creating moderate to severe turbulence, plus local downdraughts within the general updraft.
This makes all analysis/ simulation and even flights trying to match the exact conditions all speculative.
A 15 to 25 kt tailwind striking a cliff face will cause compression and updraft.
This will give an increase of speed and also considerable updraft causing a high ROC.
It will also generate vortices creating moderate to severe turbulence, plus local downdraughts within the general updraft.
This makes all analysis/ simulation and even flights trying to match the exact conditions all speculative.