BBMF Giving Hurricane LF363 to India
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BBMF Giving Hurricane LF363 to India
WTF??
BoBF Hurricane LF363 - Britmodeller.com=
Just picked up the latest issue of Aeroplane Monthly. BTW not on the web yet so you will have to buy it!
The Editorial and a news item inside are both devoted to the news that the BoBF Hurricane IIB LF363 is off to India for the reformation of the IAF's Historic Flight.
I found this on 'tinternet
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Museum/Palam/Vintage.html
Let's think this through before getting emotional.
It is the last Hurricane accepted into RAF service in 1944 (PZ865 never entered active service - it remained with Hawkers until donated to the RAF in the 1970's)
It has been in continuous service with the RAF since inducted (let's say that during it's rebuild in the early 1990's it was merely 'resting')
It is the RAF's longest serving aircraft by far (what else comes close - the BOBF Chippies maybe??)
It is a founder member of the BoBF
In exchange
[I]IAF donate a Mk.1(identity not stated)
It will take 'several years' to be made airworthy
The world's population of airworthy Hurricanes will increase by one
Is this a fair exchange?
Who brokered this deal and why?
I have to admit that I had to read the article a few times to grasp the implications. I originally thought that it was being shipped over for a few displays, just like Spit Vb AB910 to the USA some years ago. Not so. On the negative side, an important slice of RAF history is being lost (to us at least). Also do we send them '363 now and get a bag of bits, or do we do the swap when the other airframe is airworthy? On the positive side, I doubt it will be flown as often as it is now and so the chances of it having a prang are less. (Museaum/flying arguments on a postcard please!) Secondly, we potentially get a new aircraft (with an intersting pedigree?) to enjoy in years to come. If you look at the link, it's doubtful that the Mk.II they have in their 'static' Flight is the exchange item. So what will it be?
India has got to be an untapped source of goodies (is there another Wapiti out there?).
I am genuinly in two minds about this............what do YOU think?
Confused
Max H.
The Editorial and a news item inside are both devoted to the news that the BoBF Hurricane IIB LF363 is off to India for the reformation of the IAF's Historic Flight.
I found this on 'tinternet
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Museum/Palam/Vintage.html
Let's think this through before getting emotional.
It is the last Hurricane accepted into RAF service in 1944 (PZ865 never entered active service - it remained with Hawkers until donated to the RAF in the 1970's)
It has been in continuous service with the RAF since inducted (let's say that during it's rebuild in the early 1990's it was merely 'resting')
It is the RAF's longest serving aircraft by far (what else comes close - the BOBF Chippies maybe??)
It is a founder member of the BoBF
In exchange
[I]IAF donate a Mk.1(identity not stated)
It will take 'several years' to be made airworthy
The world's population of airworthy Hurricanes will increase by one
Is this a fair exchange?
Who brokered this deal and why?
I have to admit that I had to read the article a few times to grasp the implications. I originally thought that it was being shipped over for a few displays, just like Spit Vb AB910 to the USA some years ago. Not so. On the negative side, an important slice of RAF history is being lost (to us at least). Also do we send them '363 now and get a bag of bits, or do we do the swap when the other airframe is airworthy? On the positive side, I doubt it will be flown as often as it is now and so the chances of it having a prang are less. (Museaum/flying arguments on a postcard please!) Secondly, we potentially get a new aircraft (with an intersting pedigree?) to enjoy in years to come. If you look at the link, it's doubtful that the Mk.II they have in their 'static' Flight is the exchange item. So what will it be?
India has got to be an untapped source of goodies (is there another Wapiti out there?).
I am genuinly in two minds about this............what do YOU think?
Confused
Max H.
The Alpine Collection's Hurricane IIA is up for sale.
It failed to meet it's reserve at a recent auction.
Cheap Kiwi dollars too
It failed to meet it's reserve at a recent auction.
Cheap Kiwi dollars too
It is the RAF's longest serving aircraft by far (what else comes close - the BOBF Chippies maybe??)
Quite surprised their giving away a Hurricane vice a Spitty though!
B Word
My view is that the Battle of BRITAIN might give a clue as to where as many Hurricanes and Spitfires should be here flying at as many events as possible.
The BBMF has to work hard keeping its aircraft in tip top condition and needs as many airworthy aircraft as it can possibly obtain. Removing one Hurricane from the pool increases the load on the rest. Where is the sense in that, given that these aircraft are so evocative and emotive?
It would be a darn sight more sensible if the Indian Air Force donated the Hurricane Mk I to the BBMF for rebuild on condition it flew in either Far East or IAF identity, here in the UK for the same number of years as the rebuild took, and then be handed over.
I don't see the "gain" to lose an airworthy Hurricane from the UK display circuit in exchange for an early airframe that may take years to complete, if that's the crux of the deal....
Could this useless Government spring for the Alpine Collection Hurricane? Gaining one makes more sense to me than losing one!
The BBMF has to work hard keeping its aircraft in tip top condition and needs as many airworthy aircraft as it can possibly obtain. Removing one Hurricane from the pool increases the load on the rest. Where is the sense in that, given that these aircraft are so evocative and emotive?
It would be a darn sight more sensible if the Indian Air Force donated the Hurricane Mk I to the BBMF for rebuild on condition it flew in either Far East or IAF identity, here in the UK for the same number of years as the rebuild took, and then be handed over.
I don't see the "gain" to lose an airworthy Hurricane from the UK display circuit in exchange for an early airframe that may take years to complete, if that's the crux of the deal....
Could this useless Government spring for the Alpine Collection Hurricane? Gaining one makes more sense to me than losing one!
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So the Indian Airforce gets a Hurricane that it can fly at airshows, memorial services and other celebrations that honour the many Indian soldiers that lost their lives in WW2 and those few that still remain alive.
According to Wikipedia some 2.5 million Indian volunteers faught in the war in the Middle East, Africa and Far East, 30 Victoria Crosses were gained by Indian soldiers.
I think that it is high time that India was given such a powerful symbol to honour it's efforts especially whilst some of those that will remember it in Africa are still alive.
And in return they are giving us an even more valuable machine that will probably give Hawker Restorations Ltd more work and another chance to show the world their mastery of their art.
Also the Hurricane being given to the IAF will hopefully spark the spirit of flight in a few young kids as they look up at the sound of a Merlin and start dreaming.
According to Wikipedia some 2.5 million Indian volunteers faught in the war in the Middle East, Africa and Far East, 30 Victoria Crosses were gained by Indian soldiers.
I think that it is high time that India was given such a powerful symbol to honour it's efforts especially whilst some of those that will remember it in Africa are still alive.
And in return they are giving us an even more valuable machine that will probably give Hawker Restorations Ltd more work and another chance to show the world their mastery of their art.
Also the Hurricane being given to the IAF will hopefully spark the spirit of flight in a few young kids as they look up at the sound of a Merlin and start dreaming.
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Why should the UK buy them a Hurricane jacko? Last time I checked India had a few sheckles to rub together and will increase in strength way beyond the UK's ability.
This is a straight swap, and a good one. Tis a shame that we couldn't have got this thrown into the deal as well though.
This is a straight swap, and a good one. Tis a shame that we couldn't have got this thrown into the deal as well though.
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The issue is that the BBMF have two very historic Hurricanes and neither can be regarded as 'spare for trade'. Exchanging one of the two very historic Mk.IIcs for a Mk.1 restoration project doesn't look like a good deal. Who cares whether we have a Mk.1 or Mk. II airworthy? Why can't India restore its own Hurricane to flight status? If there is so much concern for how many personel our allies lost during WWII, then we would ending up 'donating' airworthy aircraft to Poland, Russia and others?
Hurricane LF363 is a very historic machine and founder of the BBMF and not something that should be even contemplated for sale or trade, for whatever cause!
Hurricane LF363 is a very historic machine and founder of the BBMF and not something that should be even contemplated for sale or trade, for whatever cause!
Why, GPMG?
Because doing something nice for the IAF seems to be a good thing to do. They have done a great deal for 'King and Empire' in the past, after all.
I don't support giving P7350 or LF363 away, however, so buying the NZ Hurricane for the purpose would seem to be a 'good deal'.
Perhaps the IAF could also chip in a Canberra B(I)8 to replace the one we gave away to New Zealand?
Because doing something nice for the IAF seems to be a good thing to do. They have done a great deal for 'King and Empire' in the past, after all.
I don't support giving P7350 or LF363 away, however, so buying the NZ Hurricane for the purpose would seem to be a 'good deal'.
Perhaps the IAF could also chip in a Canberra B(I)8 to replace the one we gave away to New Zealand?
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Both the BBMF Hurricanes are special in their own way. I'd like to think that in time the BBMF might be able to acquire the Vacher's Mk1, though, which is far more fitting for the BBMF in terms of its history.
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Considering this was the one that was totally rebuilt and they had to sell the MK19 now owned by Rolls Royce to fund its rebuild, it seems an odd decision, Is this indicative of Brown PLC selling off all the Countries assets and is another nail in the coffin of UK PLC?
I am suprised BAe has not said anything, as it was donated by Hawker to the RAF perhaps one should in future, when donating aicraft to the RAF add a clause that if it is ever to be sold, it must be offered to be returned to the original donating company or individual first, and if they do not want it it can be sold.
Why does everyone make comments about not being in the spirit of the BBMF and the Battle of Britain timeframe, I believe the memorial was added to open it up to other types, after all there was not many Lancasters, Dakotas or Chipmunks flown by the few.....
I am suprised BAe has not said anything, as it was donated by Hawker to the RAF perhaps one should in future, when donating aicraft to the RAF add a clause that if it is ever to be sold, it must be offered to be returned to the original donating company or individual first, and if they do not want it it can be sold.
Why does everyone make comments about not being in the spirit of the BBMF and the Battle of Britain timeframe, I believe the memorial was added to open it up to other types, after all there was not many Lancasters, Dakotas or Chipmunks flown by the few.....
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A small but well-connected bird tells me that the history of the expected Mk1 includes BoB kills. If the deal goes through the BBMF will have an aircraft as good, both technically and historically as the Vacher's Mk1. The only issue is that it will take three years to get into the air.
Given that there were four Hurricanes flying during the BoB to each Spitfire, it makes sense to me to have a Hurricane that is truly connected to the battle, not one that rolled off the production line several years later.
Given that there were four Hurricanes flying during the BoB to each Spitfire, it makes sense to me to have a Hurricane that is truly connected to the battle, not one that rolled off the production line several years later.
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Just who, exactly, had the authority to either give away or swop LF? This Hurricane is part of our national heritage and its' rebuild was entirely in keeping with the need to preserve and maintain it.
The public need to rise to this and make their voices known loud and clear.
The public need to rise to this and make their voices known loud and clear.
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This Hurricane is part of our national heritage
Originally Posted by NutLoose
I am suprised BAe has not said anything, as it was donated by Hawker to the RAF perhaps one should in future, when donating aicraft to the RAF add a clause that if it is ever to be sold, it must be offered to be returned to the original donating company or individual first, and if they do not want it it can be sold
LF363 is the longest serving RAF aircraft on charge and also the last Hurricane to enter RAF service and the founding aircraft of the flight.
It's shocking that anyone could even dream up the idea, and it's total RAF history is more important and special than a swop for a Mk1 IMHO.....
