BBMF Giving Hurricane LF363 to India
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Outrage bus is leaving in 10 minutes, all aboard, first stop Knee Jerk street, followed by Letters to the Editor Square........
BoB victor beats last one made in a game of Top Trumps
BoB victor beats last one made in a game of Top Trumps
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As an ex BBMF groundcrew member of the flight during the 1970's, I am totally amazed that the RAF/Mod are even thinking of this. Perhaps us PPRuNers need to start a campaign to keep her in the UK for the future generations to enjoy as we have. 
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And I suppose, airborne_artist, that the Mk 1 you have in mind has had a full structural integrity check and its' provenance is exactly as stated? Even if this is the case, I am sure that all of us who have either flown LF or maintained it over the years it has been on BBMF would much rather keep the Hurricane that is rightly ours to keep.
The authority to dispose of our national heritage should not be vested lightly. If LF was a public building it would be listed and disposal extremely restricted.
If BBMF continues to sell, lend and swap these precious assets who would blame the MOD for assuming they could get away with removing the flight from the budget altogether?
The authority to dispose of our national heritage should not be vested lightly. If LF was a public building it would be listed and disposal extremely restricted.
If BBMF continues to sell, lend and swap these precious assets who would blame the MOD for assuming they could get away with removing the flight from the budget altogether?
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For those of you that are unaware of this aircrafts history, here are the facts. For the number of films she appeared in, perhaps we should award an Oscar to her...!!!!!!!
This aircraft is believed to be the last Hurricane ever to enter service with the RAF. It first flew on 1 January 1944; it was delivered to 5 MU on 28 January that year and was in continuous RAF service from then until a crash landing in 1991. The aircraft served with 63, 309 (Polish) and 26 Squadrons before the cessation of hostilities. Unlike many Hurricanes, LF363 was not scrapped but served on various station flights. She also appeared in the films ‘Angels One Five’, ‘Reach for the Sky’ (the story of Group Captain Douglas Bader’s life) and ‘The Battle of Britain’ as well as the television series ‘The War in the Air’. LF363 became a founding member of the RAF Historic Flight at Biggin Hill in July 1957.
On 11 September 1991, whilst en route from Coningsby to Jersey, LF363’s engine suffered a mechanical failure and it started to run rough and to lose power, pouring smoke from the exhaust stubs. The pilot diverted to RAF Wittering but the engine failed completely at a late stage of the approach, resulting in a crash-landing on the airfield. The aircraft was seriously damaged by the crash and the ensuing fierce fire; fortunately the pilot escaped with a broken ankle and minor burns. LF363 was completely re-built by Historic Flying Ltd at Audley End between 1994 and 1998, when it flew again for the first time in seven years, subsequently re-joining the BBMF.
LF 363 currently wears the colours of Hurricane Mk1 P3878 ‘YB-W’, the aircraft of Flying Officer Harold Bird-Wilson of No 17 Squadron during the Battle of Britain. Throughout the Battle, No17 Squadron was in the thick of the action over southern England, mainly based at Debden and Tangmere. ‘Birdy’ had previously had a pre-war flying accident in which he was badly burned, becoming one of the earliest aircrew ‘guinea pig’ patients of the famous, pioneering plastic surgeon, Sir Archibald McIndoe. After his recovery he joined No 17 Squadron in April 1940 and fought continuously through the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, achieving 6 confirmed kills, sharing in the destruction of several others and being awarded a DFC. His luck ran out on 24th September when he became Adolf Galland’s 40th victim and had to bale out of a flaming YB-W over the channel. ‘Birdy’ survived the war and retired as an Air Vice Marshall having been awarded the CBE, DSO, DFC and Bar and the AFC and Bar. He died aged 80 in August 2000.
This aircraft is believed to be the last Hurricane ever to enter service with the RAF. It first flew on 1 January 1944; it was delivered to 5 MU on 28 January that year and was in continuous RAF service from then until a crash landing in 1991. The aircraft served with 63, 309 (Polish) and 26 Squadrons before the cessation of hostilities. Unlike many Hurricanes, LF363 was not scrapped but served on various station flights. She also appeared in the films ‘Angels One Five’, ‘Reach for the Sky’ (the story of Group Captain Douglas Bader’s life) and ‘The Battle of Britain’ as well as the television series ‘The War in the Air’. LF363 became a founding member of the RAF Historic Flight at Biggin Hill in July 1957.
On 11 September 1991, whilst en route from Coningsby to Jersey, LF363’s engine suffered a mechanical failure and it started to run rough and to lose power, pouring smoke from the exhaust stubs. The pilot diverted to RAF Wittering but the engine failed completely at a late stage of the approach, resulting in a crash-landing on the airfield. The aircraft was seriously damaged by the crash and the ensuing fierce fire; fortunately the pilot escaped with a broken ankle and minor burns. LF363 was completely re-built by Historic Flying Ltd at Audley End between 1994 and 1998, when it flew again for the first time in seven years, subsequently re-joining the BBMF.
LF 363 currently wears the colours of Hurricane Mk1 P3878 ‘YB-W’, the aircraft of Flying Officer Harold Bird-Wilson of No 17 Squadron during the Battle of Britain. Throughout the Battle, No17 Squadron was in the thick of the action over southern England, mainly based at Debden and Tangmere. ‘Birdy’ had previously had a pre-war flying accident in which he was badly burned, becoming one of the earliest aircrew ‘guinea pig’ patients of the famous, pioneering plastic surgeon, Sir Archibald McIndoe. After his recovery he joined No 17 Squadron in April 1940 and fought continuously through the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, achieving 6 confirmed kills, sharing in the destruction of several others and being awarded a DFC. His luck ran out on 24th September when he became Adolf Galland’s 40th victim and had to bale out of a flaming YB-W over the channel. ‘Birdy’ survived the war and retired as an Air Vice Marshall having been awarded the CBE, DSO, DFC and Bar and the AFC and Bar. He died aged 80 in August 2000.
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I was dumbstruck when I first read this yesterday but I've had time to reflect on it since. I needed to get over this 'It's ours, by right' attitude. Is it heck.
Why shouldn't we give the Indians, our brothers in arms during WWII, and one of the most populous nations on earth, the chance to obtain and operate one flying Hurricane? We have the resources to restore to flight a genuine Mk1 veteran.
Let's be brave and accept change.
Why shouldn't we give the Indians, our brothers in arms during WWII, and one of the most populous nations on earth, the chance to obtain and operate one flying Hurricane? We have the resources to restore to flight a genuine Mk1 veteran.
Let's be brave and accept change.
), how much of the machine is 'origonal' compared with the one from India ??
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Definitely Wittering. I was there at the time and first on the scene, very closely followed by the fire crews. He was a VERY lucky chap as he was thrown pretty much clear on impact and rescued just before the aircraft went up in a ball of flame. Having seen the resulting remains, I would question just how much of the current aircraft is the "original" aircraft that has "served continuously" etc. It must have been a real labour of love to bother restoring it actually.
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I hate to disagree Jacko, but the New Zealand Hurricane is a significant aircraft to both the UK and New Zealand in that it is a genuine 23 Sqn aircraft that flew in the BoB, and there is at least one NZ pilot in the South Island who has it in his logbook. Why it would be a good idea to buy it and give it India escapes me!
You also didn't give NZ a B[I]8 Canberra, but a part of one, the nose section!
The IAF does have a few of the ex-RNZAF B12s, and we'd like one of those if anyone is feeling generous!
You also didn't give NZ a B[I]8 Canberra, but a part of one, the nose section!
The IAF does have a few of the ex-RNZAF B12s, and we'd like one of those if anyone is feeling generous!
Samuel,
No, we gave New Zealand a whole '8. WT346, if memory serves. Straight from the museum at Cosford. We should never have done so, as it was the RAF's last proper frontline bomber Canberra.
You bug.gers have just never bothered to reassemble it.
And the chances of getting a real ex RNZAF Canberra may be remote. India got rid of its B(I)12s before the end of the Canberra in India - all the last fighter cockpit aircraft were 8s and 58s.
As to the NZ Hurricane, who knew? The fact is that you can't miss what you never had, and the RAF BBMF never had it, so buying it for India seems like less of a loss. India's also nearer to NZ than the UK is.
No, we gave New Zealand a whole '8. WT346, if memory serves. Straight from the museum at Cosford. We should never have done so, as it was the RAF's last proper frontline bomber Canberra.
You bug.gers have just never bothered to reassemble it.
And the chances of getting a real ex RNZAF Canberra may be remote. India got rid of its B(I)12s before the end of the Canberra in India - all the last fighter cockpit aircraft were 8s and 58s.
As to the NZ Hurricane, who knew? The fact is that you can't miss what you never had, and the RAF BBMF never had it, so buying it for India seems like less of a loss. India's also nearer to NZ than the UK is.
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For the number of films she appeared in, perhaps we should award an Oscar to her...!!!!!!!
LF363 also starred in the 1957 film 'The One That Got Away' which is apparently about to be re-made as a Bollywood film!!
Nothing yet mentioned on the BBMF website, perhaps they haven't been told by the bureaucrat who made the decision.
Hope she get's to have one more air show season or at the very least a farewell show. 
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And the chances of getting a real ex RNZAF Canberra may be remote. India got rid of its B(I)12s before the end of the Canberra in India - all the last fighter cockpit aircraft were 8s and 58s.
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Jacko, WT 346 wasn't "given" to the RNZAF Musem. Cosford sold it to a London scrap dealer! However, the RNZAF Museum at Christchurch, NZ, were looking for a B(I)8 at that time and managed to secure it, thus saving it from becoming a frying pan. You should be grateful!
The aircraft was dismantled and shipped to NZ in April 1993 and is currently in store at their Museum...admittedly in bits! As they already have a Canberra on display, albeit an Australian one, they might sell it back to you!
Personally, I would prefer it to be reassembled and displayed because it at least looks like a B12.
The aircraft was dismantled and shipped to NZ in April 1993 and is currently in store at their Museum...admittedly in bits! As they already have a Canberra on display, albeit an Australian one, they might sell it back to you!
Personally, I would prefer it to be reassembled and displayed because it at least looks like a B12.
Originally Posted by Wholigan
I would question just how much of the current aircraft is the "original" aircraft that has "served continuously" etc.
All of the fuselage fittings, most of the original structural centre section, including the rear spar, big chunks of the inner wings, most of the undercarriage parts, and most of the control systems were re-used.
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Bring Back My Fighter
Perhaps BBMF should now mean...!!!!!!!!
Bring Back My Fighter
My father served on various Hurricane Sqns during WW11 as an engine fitter, and whilst we were attending the IAT at Greenham Common in the 70's, I invited him to sit in the cockpit of LF363 prior to our display that day. The resulting pictures that were taken said it all, the biggest grin I ever saw and a tear for all his sqn members that never returned from operations.
Up until the day he passed away in 2000, he always remarked that was one day he never forgot and having followed in my fathers footsteps in joining the RAF as an engine fitter, I shall never forget it also.
This aircraft was a founder member of the flight in 1957 and therefore should remain to be operated by the BBMF.
Bring Back My Fighter
My father served on various Hurricane Sqns during WW11 as an engine fitter, and whilst we were attending the IAT at Greenham Common in the 70's, I invited him to sit in the cockpit of LF363 prior to our display that day. The resulting pictures that were taken said it all, the biggest grin I ever saw and a tear for all his sqn members that never returned from operations.
Up until the day he passed away in 2000, he always remarked that was one day he never forgot and having followed in my fathers footsteps in joining the RAF as an engine fitter, I shall never forget it also.
This aircraft was a founder member of the flight in 1957 and therefore should remain to be operated by the BBMF.
jaganpvs,
That's a B(I)8 (possibly with a B(I)12's wings).
Samuel,
Another triumph by the Historic Aircraft Committee, if true, which makes it pertinent to this argument.
That's a B(I)8 (possibly with a B(I)12's wings).
Samuel,
Another triumph by the Historic Aircraft Committee, if true, which makes it pertinent to this argument.
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"Hello, welcome to the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, and thank you for phoning our outsourcing partners in India. To hear a Hurricane, please press 1, to hear a Spitfire, please press 2...." etc.etc 
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