Britain's flying tankers hailed as 'Godsend'
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BEags,
I was being sarcastic old sport - if you had,nt noticed. And I have worked with the AAR force for over 25 years and know their problems and exactly how good they are!
I was being sarcastic old sport - if you had,nt noticed. And I have worked with the AAR force for over 25 years and know their problems and exactly how good they are!
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Beag's as mentioned on another thread, have you heard of the recent offer from Cambridge International Airport?? L1011-500's fresh from "D" check, freight door (proper civvy one!) + wing pods? I believe 10 for the price of one A330, got to be a bargain 
This so-called offer from the Arfur Daley of aviation has got to be taking the pi$$! They couldn't sort out pods for the RAF TriShaws 15 years ago, so what has suddenly changed?
The worst case scenario is that we should have any more of these ageing old clunkers. Fine in their day - much as the '10 was - but way past their sell-by date now! Let The Guvnor have 'em!!
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
The worst case scenario is that we should have any more of these ageing old clunkers. Fine in their day - much as the '10 was - but way past their sell-by date now! Let The Guvnor have 'em!!
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
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L1011-500's fresh from "D" check, freight door (proper civvy one!) + wing pods? I believe 10 for the price of one A330, got to be a bargain
That would make far to much sense!
That would save far to much money!
That would not bring a new toy to play with!
That would be such a good idea!
Now stop it at once.
ps. A little money cures most problems
but ask an American Navy Pilot if he's interested in 126t of fuel or two hose's???
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: greenwizard ]
That would make far to much sense!
That would save far to much money!
That would not bring a new toy to play with!
That would be such a good idea!
Now stop it at once.
ps. A little money cures most problems
but ask an American Navy Pilot if he's interested in 126t of fuel or two hose's???
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: greenwizard ]
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Beags I have seen the drawing for fitment of wing pods and it can be done, probs are that nobody has any pennies to pay for it 
With cost being the major hurdle they could be the answer (I'm not saying the best one, only the most affordable one)
With cost being the major hurdle they could be the answer (I'm not saying the best one, only the most affordable one)
One of the principal objections to buying more obsolete aircraft is that, unlike the B767 and A330 which are still in full production, old jets soon end up costing a mint to support so the life-cycle costs aren't that much cheaper. With any more old TriStars we'd only be back in the same 'old aircraft' syndrome in 5-10 years time which we're currently in with our secondhand VC10 and TriShaw fleet.
Having trudged around the world 'plugged in' during good times and bad, I have nothing but respect for tanker crews of all varieties; Alberts were the only guys who would tank at 500 ft and the VC10 wing hose was a bu gger in cloud after an hour or so - dihedral leans OK! Vulcans transferred at an amazing rate and KC10's with the little wiggly add on were a hoot, but they were all a great relief to find, especially in the dead of night with nowhere else to go. I would put these guys in the same bucket as firemen and SAR crews; I will ALWAYS buy them beer.
Few things matter very much, most things don't matter at all.
Few things matter very much, most things don't matter at all.
"These TriStars would need replacing in five-ten years...?"
Great! They'd probably be RAF owned and operated and maybe when they are replaced they'll have forgotten all about this stupid PFI nonsense by then and they'll be replaced by new build A330s.
Great! They'd probably be RAF owned and operated and maybe when they are replaced they'll have forgotten all about this stupid PFI nonsense by then and they'll be replaced by new build A330s.
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Just to stoke up the PFI-chestnut again, I spoke to two v senior RAF brass somewhere hot and sandy a couple of weeks ago, and they said that the current crisis only strengthens the need for a PFI solution through its spare capacity.
The current campaign is proving that you can't do anything without tankers, so why farm out the capability? What's next: PFI AWACS, PFI ASTOR? Bite the bullet, HM Treasury, and accept that some things are worth coughing up for.
Impressed to hear last Friday about the long hours the VC10 and Tristar chaps are putting in to support the USN; keep up the good work!
The current campaign is proving that you can't do anything without tankers, so why farm out the capability? What's next: PFI AWACS, PFI ASTOR? Bite the bullet, HM Treasury, and accept that some things are worth coughing up for.
Impressed to hear last Friday about the long hours the VC10 and Tristar chaps are putting in to support the USN; keep up the good work!
Come on Loose Mousse, name these turkeys!
Let the boys know which brass have their fingers so firmly on the pulse, and their brains so firmly in their boots.
Let the boys know which brass have their fingers so firmly on the pulse, and their brains so firmly in their boots.
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Good on ya, guys & gals. Nice to see a bit of recognition for your efforts for a change.Saw a bit of action myself in a former life on an even older tanker. VC10 was new and shiny then! Think we are sending you some help (same vintage) - better late than never. Keep the beer cool.
P.S - who invented this PFI thing - its even migrated down under
Yes - when the rest of the world realises the worth of the AAR force, a blinkered failure to face the truth is all we hear!
There can be NO 'benefit' from PFI that would have helped in the Afghanistan War - the 'call-back' time would have been unacceptably long and any reduction would have had financial penalties. But even more basically, there is no 'market' for the PFI consortia to sell their spare capacity to. When airlines are busily shedding capacity, what makes these Melchetts think that the PFI has any realistic means of finance?
In fact the use of UK AAR by Uncle Spam would have been the much vaunted '3rd party revenue' which these PFI people think they can get paid for. But who would then have flown the aircraft? Civil owned aircraft flown by military crews for the PFI contractor's commercial gain? Sounds like being a mercenary to me.....
PFI - it's an utter crock of $hit for military AAR force enablement. Time that Melchett realised that. BAAAAH!!
There can be NO 'benefit' from PFI that would have helped in the Afghanistan War - the 'call-back' time would have been unacceptably long and any reduction would have had financial penalties. But even more basically, there is no 'market' for the PFI consortia to sell their spare capacity to. When airlines are busily shedding capacity, what makes these Melchetts think that the PFI has any realistic means of finance?
In fact the use of UK AAR by Uncle Spam would have been the much vaunted '3rd party revenue' which these PFI people think they can get paid for. But who would then have flown the aircraft? Civil owned aircraft flown by military crews for the PFI contractor's commercial gain? Sounds like being a mercenary to me.....
PFI - it's an utter crock of $hit for military AAR force enablement. Time that Melchett realised that. BAAAAH!!
