aircrew retention latest
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aircrew retention latest
this is from hansard
Aircrew Retention
Mr. Kevin Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the outcome of the comprehensive review of aircrew retention. [23809]
Mr. Ingram: The Ministry of Defence has conducted a Comprehensive Review of Aircrew Retention this summer. We sought to identify why we have a shortfall in this highly trained group of personnel and how that shortfall might best be addressed. A study team including representatives from the three Services, HM Treasury and external consultancy have reviewed aircrew requirements and have looked at employment patterns, career structures, training systems and remuneration as well as the recruitment and financial policies of the commercial sector.
The Working Group collated the views of over 1,000 aircrew (probably the largest such survey the armed forces has undertaken) as well as those of managers. They examined and identified why people leave service life, as well as the attraction of the commercial sector.
The main cause of the shortage of aircrew was a failure of the training system to deliver against challenging targets. That has already been addressed, but it will take time to deliver. We intend, therefore, further to improve the retention of our current aircrew.
The Working Group identified a series of issues impacting on retention. Many of the quality of life issues emerging from the Review of Aircrew Retention were already being tackled. For example, the very significant programmes introduced to spend an additional £1 billion over the next 10 years on modernising single living accommodation and to spend £650 million by November 2005 on upgrading married quarters. We recognise that accommodation problems spread beyond housing and action is needed to address sub-standard working and technical accommodation as well. Senior service officers have also set in hand work to address a number of key concerns raised by aircrew--for example on operational tempo, career management, frequency of moves, and more. The impact of resolving these concerns will also be of benefit to personnel beyond the aircrew community. Some of the issues raised by aircrew are misperceptions, and to address this better communication is being developed across the services.
There are some remuneration aspects arising from the review and, as is usual, we have made proposals to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body (AFPRB). The outcome will be reported to the House in due course--probably early February.
We are monitoring closely developments in the commercial sector. But, even if the pull to the private sector decreases as a result of a contraction in the civil sector, we still have a responsibility to deal with the natural factors which cause personnel to leave, and which are preventing us reaching aircrew manning balance.
sounds positive but I dont suppose many will be holding their breath.
Aircrew Retention
Mr. Kevin Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the outcome of the comprehensive review of aircrew retention. [23809]
Mr. Ingram: The Ministry of Defence has conducted a Comprehensive Review of Aircrew Retention this summer. We sought to identify why we have a shortfall in this highly trained group of personnel and how that shortfall might best be addressed. A study team including representatives from the three Services, HM Treasury and external consultancy have reviewed aircrew requirements and have looked at employment patterns, career structures, training systems and remuneration as well as the recruitment and financial policies of the commercial sector.
The Working Group collated the views of over 1,000 aircrew (probably the largest such survey the armed forces has undertaken) as well as those of managers. They examined and identified why people leave service life, as well as the attraction of the commercial sector.
The main cause of the shortage of aircrew was a failure of the training system to deliver against challenging targets. That has already been addressed, but it will take time to deliver. We intend, therefore, further to improve the retention of our current aircrew.
The Working Group identified a series of issues impacting on retention. Many of the quality of life issues emerging from the Review of Aircrew Retention were already being tackled. For example, the very significant programmes introduced to spend an additional £1 billion over the next 10 years on modernising single living accommodation and to spend £650 million by November 2005 on upgrading married quarters. We recognise that accommodation problems spread beyond housing and action is needed to address sub-standard working and technical accommodation as well. Senior service officers have also set in hand work to address a number of key concerns raised by aircrew--for example on operational tempo, career management, frequency of moves, and more. The impact of resolving these concerns will also be of benefit to personnel beyond the aircrew community. Some of the issues raised by aircrew are misperceptions, and to address this better communication is being developed across the services.
There are some remuneration aspects arising from the review and, as is usual, we have made proposals to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body (AFPRB). The outcome will be reported to the House in due course--probably early February.
We are monitoring closely developments in the commercial sector. But, even if the pull to the private sector decreases as a result of a contraction in the civil sector, we still have a responsibility to deal with the natural factors which cause personnel to leave, and which are preventing us reaching aircrew manning balance.
sounds positive but I dont suppose many will be holding their breath.
Uncle peter,
A a couple of points that hit me in this:
1. Why on earth would anyone need to employ outside consultants to find out why there is an aircrew retention problem? The reasons are blindingly obvious, even to those of us who left a few years ago. A couple of hours browsing the PPRuNE archives would give anyone with a modicum of common sense a good feel for the problem.
2. Who are the "managers" they consulted? Doesn't the Service have leaders and commanders any more - or are they now consigned to history in the era of "executives" and "agencies".
Had to laugh about the renewed efforts to improve communications though. What's the problem with these "managers" getting out of their "agencies" regularly and actually getting into crewrooms to have meaningful dialogue with the very people they want to retain? It's hardly bl**dy rocket science. Seem to remember saying the same thing about 20 years ago!
A a couple of points that hit me in this:
1. Why on earth would anyone need to employ outside consultants to find out why there is an aircrew retention problem? The reasons are blindingly obvious, even to those of us who left a few years ago. A couple of hours browsing the PPRuNE archives would give anyone with a modicum of common sense a good feel for the problem.
2. Who are the "managers" they consulted? Doesn't the Service have leaders and commanders any more - or are they now consigned to history in the era of "executives" and "agencies".
Had to laugh about the renewed efforts to improve communications though. What's the problem with these "managers" getting out of their "agencies" regularly and actually getting into crewrooms to have meaningful dialogue with the very people they want to retain? It's hardly bl**dy rocket science. Seem to remember saying the same thing about 20 years ago!
lazy fairweather PPRuNer
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The sentence that smacks me in the gob is "Some of the issues raised by aircrew are misperceptions."
Says it all really. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Says it all really. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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Jimnich
Didn't you know that life in the RAF is all roses?
Well actually the bed of roses I am in is suffering from blackspot and full of s*&t..
Just shows you the arrogance of those involved in sorting out the problems. Soon no one will be left.
Didn't you know that life in the RAF is all roses?
Well actually the bed of roses I am in is suffering from blackspot and full of s*&t..
Just shows you the arrogance of those involved in sorting out the problems. Soon no one will be left.
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Can't believe how bitter and twisted you guys are! I'm having a great time - loads of cash for doing my 'hobby', seeing the world, job security and loads of time off.
Stop knocking the RAF all the time and enjoy the opportunity! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Stop knocking the RAF all the time and enjoy the opportunity! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Stall - would merely listening to the vociferous (with time on their hands) on PPRuNe really potray the whole picture?
I do agree with your leader/manager sentiments but remember - he was reading a simple servant prepared statement to other Politicians - neither group will understand leadership but they feed on buzzwords - don't be so sensitive!
Not wishing to swim against the stream here but that statement is about as positive as it gets - something IS being done and a Minister has gone on record to confirm some of the measures. I , for one, am pleased that a comprehensive survey was taken from a broad spectrum and that the proposals take QoL issues seriously - money is not the only answer (though clearly a substantial part of it).
Do not get me wrong - I do not, as a rule, trust Politicians an inch but what more did you expect?
Only time will tell of course but I do think that this statement is reason to be cautiously optimistic.
Oh - and Pete O' - Get some time in!
I do agree with your leader/manager sentiments but remember - he was reading a simple servant prepared statement to other Politicians - neither group will understand leadership but they feed on buzzwords - don't be so sensitive!
Not wishing to swim against the stream here but that statement is about as positive as it gets - something IS being done and a Minister has gone on record to confirm some of the measures. I , for one, am pleased that a comprehensive survey was taken from a broad spectrum and that the proposals take QoL issues seriously - money is not the only answer (though clearly a substantial part of it).
Do not get me wrong - I do not, as a rule, trust Politicians an inch but what more did you expect?
Only time will tell of course but I do think that this statement is reason to be cautiously optimistic.
Oh - and Pete O' - Get some time in!
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Got to agree with the Captain, but I never trust politicians, and remember that most officers are political animals by the time they hit very senior rank. Somebody is at least publicly aknowledging that there is a problem, perhaps the powers will take it seriously.
I agree with the comment about stop bitching and have a good time, perhaps the people who are doing the bitching have too much time on their hands. What they need are more out of area detachments to keep them busy especially around Christmas time and in places where ther is no internet access; somewhere like Af******** sounds nice.
Oops sounding like a politician, must lie down.
Head down, look out for the flack
I agree with the comment about stop bitching and have a good time, perhaps the people who are doing the bitching have too much time on their hands. What they need are more out of area detachments to keep them busy especially around Christmas time and in places where ther is no internet access; somewhere like Af******** sounds nice.
Oops sounding like a politician, must lie down.
Head down, look out for the flack
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I've had lots of dealings recently with Innsworth and I wish to apologise to all of my friends, sorry friend, who think I have now gone mad, baaaaaahhhhhh!! But, I KNOW that their lordships are trying hard on this one, with the odd exception of course. I for one will be making my big decision on the feb pay announcement. If it is not good enough, then I will vote with my feet. No whinges or moans, no complaining, just nice simple facts. Give the senior officers credit on this one, some are speaking out publicly, ie risking careers. They actually care..........aaaahhhhhhhhhh!
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Sounds to me like to civvy pilot market has started to pick up already, a mate who lost his slot with Maersk has just got it back. I hope those how feel a retention package is no longer required are watching the market.
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To all who may be interested there is a re-hash of the hansard extract available at:
<a href="http://centre.defence.mod.uk/DGCC_NewsPortal/stories/december01/aircrew.htm" target="_blank">http://centre.defence.mod.uk/DGCC_NewsPortal/stories/december01/aircrew.htm</a> for all who can get there.
<a href="http://centre.defence.mod.uk/DGCC_NewsPortal/stories/december01/aircrew.htm" target="_blank">http://centre.defence.mod.uk/DGCC_NewsPortal/stories/december01/aircrew.htm</a> for all who can get there.
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feeling quite heartened by the fact that people are asking questions.
more from hansard
Aircrew Retention 9 Jan 2002
Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the series of issues affecting retention that the working party on Aircrew Retention has been examining. [25703]
Mr. Ingram: The main issues identified by the Aircrew Retention Review as to why aircrew leave the Services were:
(a) The pull of a buoyant external employment market (while current difficulties being experienced by the civil sector may result in a short-term reduction in the pull factor, long-term solutions will be needed.
(b) A push effect arising from a diminution in faith/belief in the influence of senior leadership (this phenomenon has also been detected by other nations' armed forces).
(c) A host of "quality of life" issues, including the level of operational tempo and some career-management issues.
(d) The push of a gratuity/pension being available should aircrew decide to leave in their late 30s.
Action to address some of these issues was already in hand (such as the creation of a Defence Leadership Centre); for others it will take longer to make an impact but, under the direction of the Defence Management Board, plans are being drawn up to address each of the issues raised by aircrew. In some cases the retention-negative factors are an integral part of life in the armed forces and, as an acknowledgement of this, Service pay is augmented by the "X" factor (currently 13 per cent.).
extract ends.
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
more from hansard
Aircrew Retention 9 Jan 2002
Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the series of issues affecting retention that the working party on Aircrew Retention has been examining. [25703]
Mr. Ingram: The main issues identified by the Aircrew Retention Review as to why aircrew leave the Services were:
(a) The pull of a buoyant external employment market (while current difficulties being experienced by the civil sector may result in a short-term reduction in the pull factor, long-term solutions will be needed.
(b) A push effect arising from a diminution in faith/belief in the influence of senior leadership (this phenomenon has also been detected by other nations' armed forces).
(c) A host of "quality of life" issues, including the level of operational tempo and some career-management issues.
(d) The push of a gratuity/pension being available should aircrew decide to leave in their late 30s.
Action to address some of these issues was already in hand (such as the creation of a Defence Leadership Centre); for others it will take longer to make an impact but, under the direction of the Defence Management Board, plans are being drawn up to address each of the issues raised by aircrew. In some cases the retention-negative factors are an integral part of life in the armed forces and, as an acknowledgement of this, Service pay is augmented by the "X" factor (currently 13 per cent.).
extract ends.
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Dear FJJP and Captain Kirk....
Just read your comments re 'get some time in'; for your information I am on my 7th tour (5 fast jet and 2 QFI), don't assume that everyone on the forum is a disgruntled RAF pilot and that if favourable comments are made that they must be 'new boys in town'. I did my ATPL 4 years ago and then decided to stay on the basis of what some good mates told me about civil flying and my experiences with the CAA and civvy flight schools during licensing. I'm happy with my lot and probably (although not necessarily) have more experience than the pair of you, chill out and be pleased that some of us actually find the RAF rewarding! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Just read your comments re 'get some time in'; for your information I am on my 7th tour (5 fast jet and 2 QFI), don't assume that everyone on the forum is a disgruntled RAF pilot and that if favourable comments are made that they must be 'new boys in town'. I did my ATPL 4 years ago and then decided to stay on the basis of what some good mates told me about civil flying and my experiences with the CAA and civvy flight schools during licensing. I'm happy with my lot and probably (although not necessarily) have more experience than the pair of you, chill out and be pleased that some of us actually find the RAF rewarding! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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As a 'Future WSOp', are we going to be included in this? Or is it another case of Airmen (Aircrew) being treated like 5h1t between a rock and a hard place (and I don't mean RAF Regiment and HMP Kinloss).
Quality of life is everything, close HMP Kinloss so I can spend my flying pay in England!
I think I'm right in saying that the AEOp trade has a recruiting problem rather than a retention problem, I bet this doesn't come into the equation.
Quality of life is everything, close HMP Kinloss so I can spend my flying pay in England!
I think I'm right in saying that the AEOp trade has a recruiting problem rather than a retention problem, I bet this doesn't come into the equation.
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TheSeeFarShadow
Both the AFBLT and the Aircrew Retention Roadshow folk went to great length to emphasise that it is Aircrew not just Pilot Retention that needs looking at.
I suspect that with AEOps it is both recruiting and retention that is the problem. That is a gut feeling based on my observations
Regards
Stan
Both the AFBLT and the Aircrew Retention Roadshow folk went to great length to emphasise that it is Aircrew not just Pilot Retention that needs looking at.
I suspect that with AEOps it is both recruiting and retention that is the problem. That is a gut feeling based on my observations
Regards
Stan
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From DofR&S: the RAF are now recruiting WSOs and WSOps instead of Navs and AEOps/Air Sig.
Last year OASC selected 34 out of planned 54 (of which 7 were serving airmen - apparently because they think Kinloss is the back of beyond - no 5h1t!)
They are going to advertise in FHM, GQ, Loaded magazines - hope it's as good as the RAF tv ad.
Seems we have a good chance!
Last year OASC selected 34 out of planned 54 (of which 7 were serving airmen - apparently because they think Kinloss is the back of beyond - no 5h1t!)
They are going to advertise in FHM, GQ, Loaded magazines - hope it's as good as the RAF tv ad.
Seems we have a good chance!
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SFS
Ice Station Kilo is a big turn off for many recruits. A lot of AA recruits go loadie for the choice, many like the idea of Maritime but not the location. The highlands were not formed to keep people out!
I hear a former FAA base will have a bit of space soon keeping us close to the sea - cause that’s important these days.
I am sure the retention package designed by blue bloods for blue bloods (whom are unsure what a siggie smells like, let alone looks like) will address all our worries.
We cannot replace those that leave at the moment, increasing the pressure on the 3rds and 4ths pissing them off so they leave at their options - futures not bright.
Rant over where is the bar - a long white Russian is in order
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Ice Station Kilo is a big turn off for many recruits. A lot of AA recruits go loadie for the choice, many like the idea of Maritime but not the location. The highlands were not formed to keep people out!
I hear a former FAA base will have a bit of space soon keeping us close to the sea - cause that’s important these days.
I am sure the retention package designed by blue bloods for blue bloods (whom are unsure what a siggie smells like, let alone looks like) will address all our worries.
We cannot replace those that leave at the moment, increasing the pressure on the 3rds and 4ths pissing them off so they leave at their options - futures not bright.
Rant over where is the bar - a long white Russian is in order
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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As CL states AA recruitment is a major problem. The good news is that it has been recognised as such and has progressed to being a major issue. One day it may even be succesfully addressed. Personally I hope that the siggie career path will start to include a realistic chance of rotating through E3D/R1/ASTOR and that Scotland will no longer be seen as the only option. Cross pollination of ISTAR and all that. Sadly the ASACS bunch don't seem keen, nor do the Army and as for those entrenched at Waddo, can you see any of them volunteering to go north!
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One exremely negative aspect of Kilo personnel moving south would be the inevitable impact on Standard of Living caused by the vast disparity in house prices between the North of Scotland and just about anywhere else in the UK.
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of Houseowners at Kinloss and Lossie to other places such as Lyneham, Waddington etc.
The concept of the interest free loan of your gratuity (seemed very popular this time last year) would have done much to help sort out home ownership - be it used to buy or to invest for later use.
In effect - at the 38/16 - 22 points, its your money lying dormant, why can't you use it.
Time will tell
Stan
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of Houseowners at Kinloss and Lossie to other places such as Lyneham, Waddington etc.
The concept of the interest free loan of your gratuity (seemed very popular this time last year) would have done much to help sort out home ownership - be it used to buy or to invest for later use.
In effect - at the 38/16 - 22 points, its your money lying dormant, why can't you use it.
Time will tell
Stan