Media Coverage of The War
Lo/Slo
Don't descend to Pratt level, please! Of course I'm not pro-Fatah - nor particularly pro-PLO, though I can see why people who've been under illegal military occupation for 50 years, who've been ethnically cleansed and dispossessed, and whose friends and family may have been murdered may support people for whom I personally may have some distaste. I just think that the Palestinian people have been royally shafted since 1948 (and especially 1967) and I'd like to see Israel withdraw from the territory it claimed by force of arms, holds illegally, and is refusing to leave, despite UN resolutions.
It's like NI. You may have some sympathy for the Republican population and/or the Unionists, but unless you're deranged, are unlikely to approve of the IRA, Sinn Fein, the UVF or the more extreme Unionist parties yourself.
If you think that media pressure alone forced Nixon to withdraw, you're barking, mate! The media may have reflected public opinion, and public opinion against the war may have played a part - but public opinion was influenced more by the stream of body bags, pictures of napalmed children (doubtless an evil media fabrication, or something that journos shouldn't have reported), and the experiences of those who returned than by what some journalist did or didn't say.
Yes, Pilger and his ilk were nutters then, and were not helpful, nor was Ms.Fonda, but nor were they any more influential than they are now.
The war may or may not have been winnable (probably not, given the way in which it was fought), but the US defeat cannot sensibly be blamed on the press.
PS: How's the Pizza restaurant owning dude who was pictured blowing the brains out of a captured VC prisoner, by the way? Was the distaste for our allies activities his fault, or those of the photographer who took the picture, or the editor who published it.
Kiting,
I'm still happy to compare the suffering of any groups of people who suffer at the hands of terrorists or state terror. The September 11 victims and the Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli helicopter gunships are innocent victims, who deserve sympathy and perhaps restitution.
Don't descend to Pratt level, please! Of course I'm not pro-Fatah - nor particularly pro-PLO, though I can see why people who've been under illegal military occupation for 50 years, who've been ethnically cleansed and dispossessed, and whose friends and family may have been murdered may support people for whom I personally may have some distaste. I just think that the Palestinian people have been royally shafted since 1948 (and especially 1967) and I'd like to see Israel withdraw from the territory it claimed by force of arms, holds illegally, and is refusing to leave, despite UN resolutions.
It's like NI. You may have some sympathy for the Republican population and/or the Unionists, but unless you're deranged, are unlikely to approve of the IRA, Sinn Fein, the UVF or the more extreme Unionist parties yourself.
If you think that media pressure alone forced Nixon to withdraw, you're barking, mate! The media may have reflected public opinion, and public opinion against the war may have played a part - but public opinion was influenced more by the stream of body bags, pictures of napalmed children (doubtless an evil media fabrication, or something that journos shouldn't have reported), and the experiences of those who returned than by what some journalist did or didn't say.
Yes, Pilger and his ilk were nutters then, and were not helpful, nor was Ms.Fonda, but nor were they any more influential than they are now.
The war may or may not have been winnable (probably not, given the way in which it was fought), but the US defeat cannot sensibly be blamed on the press.
PS: How's the Pizza restaurant owning dude who was pictured blowing the brains out of a captured VC prisoner, by the way? Was the distaste for our allies activities his fault, or those of the photographer who took the picture, or the editor who published it.
Kiting,
I'm still happy to compare the suffering of any groups of people who suffer at the hands of terrorists or state terror. The September 11 victims and the Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli helicopter gunships are innocent victims, who deserve sympathy and perhaps restitution.
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Jacko, stop your killing me! 
Like I said, you are not pro-fatah. Maybe you misunderstood my phrase "you are not pro fatah." Could happen. What I meant was you are not pro fatah.
Pizza parlour owning dude? Do you mean Police Chief Nguyen Ngoc Loan. as seen on a 12 second clip of 16m film shot in Siagon in 1968?. I think he died in 97.
Of course the world forgets the genocide committed by NVN, and all their war crimes.
Like I said, you are not pro-fatah. Maybe you misunderstood my phrase "you are not pro fatah." Could happen. What I meant was you are not pro fatah.
Pizza parlour owning dude? Do you mean Police Chief Nguyen Ngoc Loan. as seen on a 12 second clip of 16m film shot in Siagon in 1968?. I think he died in 97.
Of course the world forgets the genocide committed by NVN, and all their war crimes.
Jacko
Again we agree on the one thing, the Vietnam war was mismanaged. No one should argue that point. We divurge where to place blame. Better said, allocate the blame. The largest chunk goes to the government, read LBJ. The minutia of a tactical war managed by civilians at cabinet level and higher driven by political considerations from 10,000 miles away is one doomed for failure. Nixon inherited a mismanaged war, and as a bonus an unpopular one at that. LBJ failed to convey our goals to the people he needed to the most, his constituents. Nixon, seeing the writing on the wall punted the ball by disengaging. The question why, at this time, with the objective clearly in sight did we throw in the towel must be asked. Here the media dovetails nicely into their share of the blame.
Perhaps I am a dinosour as I believe that the only place opinion belongs in the media is in an op/ed piece appropriately labeled as such. No more can you write a history book without bias than can a reporter cover a story as sweeping as the Vietnam war without developing an opinion. That's human nature. The challenge is of course to keep ones biases at bay. The line in the sand was crossed by many and the war was covered with the purpose of persuading rather than informing. No longer a reporter but an agent of change.
Your tale of two generals conversing about what a great war it was is true in the final outcome. What you missed is that they would not be having the conversation if not for the NVA taking a much larger role in the war post tet offensive. In all places except the media, tet was a failure. At the highest levels of government in the North tet was recognized for what it was, a failure on the field of play but a victory on main street USA. The decision was made to apply pressure through conventional troop movements to gain victory. It was obviously a decision that was a winner. The decision however had to have given pause to the capabilities of the U.S. at responding to conventional troops in the field. Where their analysis was correct was that the the United States collective will was vanquished. In the venacular,the fire in the belly was gone. So, was tet a victory, yes in all but the military sense of it. Thank the press and to a large degree the government for the victory.
Again we agree on the one thing, the Vietnam war was mismanaged. No one should argue that point. We divurge where to place blame. Better said, allocate the blame. The largest chunk goes to the government, read LBJ. The minutia of a tactical war managed by civilians at cabinet level and higher driven by political considerations from 10,000 miles away is one doomed for failure. Nixon inherited a mismanaged war, and as a bonus an unpopular one at that. LBJ failed to convey our goals to the people he needed to the most, his constituents. Nixon, seeing the writing on the wall punted the ball by disengaging. The question why, at this time, with the objective clearly in sight did we throw in the towel must be asked. Here the media dovetails nicely into their share of the blame.
Perhaps I am a dinosour as I believe that the only place opinion belongs in the media is in an op/ed piece appropriately labeled as such. No more can you write a history book without bias than can a reporter cover a story as sweeping as the Vietnam war without developing an opinion. That's human nature. The challenge is of course to keep ones biases at bay. The line in the sand was crossed by many and the war was covered with the purpose of persuading rather than informing. No longer a reporter but an agent of change.
Your tale of two generals conversing about what a great war it was is true in the final outcome. What you missed is that they would not be having the conversation if not for the NVA taking a much larger role in the war post tet offensive. In all places except the media, tet was a failure. At the highest levels of government in the North tet was recognized for what it was, a failure on the field of play but a victory on main street USA. The decision was made to apply pressure through conventional troop movements to gain victory. It was obviously a decision that was a winner. The decision however had to have given pause to the capabilities of the U.S. at responding to conventional troops in the field. Where their analysis was correct was that the the United States collective will was vanquished. In the venacular,the fire in the belly was gone. So, was tet a victory, yes in all but the military sense of it. Thank the press and to a large degree the government for the victory.
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Jacko, I never said the Press lost the Vietnam war did I?
I said the press screwed the US military. There is a considerable difference. Comments like that aren't really in the spirit of informative or competitive dialogue are they!
I said the press screwed the US military. There is a considerable difference. Comments like that aren't really in the spirit of informative or competitive dialogue are they!
Nor did I say it either. A very complex blame game, but the media got their slice of the pie. The only thing open to debate is how big is the slice. Cool, whats next? What else are you in need of guidence on Jacko? Don't ask about women as I am of no help there, cant even reign in my 3 yr old.
