VIP/Royal L1011
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1. This has been "on the cards" for a number of years, but the plan was to convert a K1, as they are somewhat restricted in the current config.
2. What's this I hear about another 9 TriStars? Podded to boot.....
3. About time we had something viable to transport the VVIPs in, especially in light of 9/11. Even certain Commonwealth countries with a defence budget 1/3 the size of ours have dedicated long-range VVIP transport.
2. What's this I hear about another 9 TriStars? Podded to boot.....
3. About time we had something viable to transport the VVIPs in, especially in light of 9/11. Even certain Commonwealth countries with a defence budget 1/3 the size of ours have dedicated long-range VVIP transport.
This is one role where buying British is important. Damned poor advert for UK plc for HMQ or Il Presidente to go everywhere in a heap of US-built tin. I don't care if the VC10 is ancient - keep a white one nicely polished and make them use that, or hop from refuelling stop to refuelling stop and send a 146. And if we have to buy something (why not lease or PFI/PPP for this?) then make it a nice Airbus with a British-built wing and RR engines.
In that case, JN, how'sabout a spare BA or Air France Concord(e) for 32(TR) Sq? Then Our Beloved Leader can arrive before he set off. 
Suppose the downside would be that this would confuse the Deputy PM to the point where he might be incapable of doing his job properly....
[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: Archimedes ]
Suppose the downside would be that this would confuse the Deputy PM to the point where he might be incapable of doing his job properly....
[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: Archimedes ]
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But even with a Concorde can VVIPs, as the limerick says, depart one day in a relative way and return the previous Friday?
American tin isn't that bad but can see your point that absent a totally British a/c a scarebuss or equal would be appropriate.
Can the 146 be modded to be tanked and then you have a case for more L1011 tankers? Rules against tanking with VVIPs aboard maybe too.
American tin isn't that bad but can see your point that absent a totally British a/c a scarebuss or equal would be appropriate.
Can the 146 be modded to be tanked and then you have a case for more L1011 tankers? Rules against tanking with VVIPs aboard maybe too.
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The problem with the L1011 is that you need a 'kin long (relatively) runway, bearing in mind that El Presidente visits some of the more obscure places.
Now if it was me, something like a BBJ (posh 737) or a small Airbus would do nicely.............
Now if it was me, something like a BBJ (posh 737) or a small Airbus would do nicely.............
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Jacko,
"I don't care if the VC10 is ancient - keep a white one nicely polished and make them use that,"......you're 'avin' a larf mate. Most airports wouldn't let the old girl in on account of the noise etc, and looks bloody embarrassing when she sits there all forlorn once everyone else has departed, waiting for a spare piston or valve to be made.
"The problem with the L1011 is that you need a 'kin long (relatively) runway"....7000' is fine (seemed to manage when they resurfaced the runway at Akronelli). As for the option of AAR with VIP's on board, it has been done, but doesn't make much sense. Bit like the "let's use a TriStar to tank the VC 10 so it can make it all the way" idea, when the Tri* could have done the trip in one go...
L1011 might not be ideal, but it is available. What are the legs like on the A321? New, European and tres chic methinks. Or a nice GV for those hard to reach areas...
"I don't care if the VC10 is ancient - keep a white one nicely polished and make them use that,"......you're 'avin' a larf mate. Most airports wouldn't let the old girl in on account of the noise etc, and looks bloody embarrassing when she sits there all forlorn once everyone else has departed, waiting for a spare piston or valve to be made.
"The problem with the L1011 is that you need a 'kin long (relatively) runway"....7000' is fine (seemed to manage when they resurfaced the runway at Akronelli). As for the option of AAR with VIP's on board, it has been done, but doesn't make much sense. Bit like the "let's use a TriStar to tank the VC 10 so it can make it all the way" idea, when the Tri* could have done the trip in one go...
L1011 might not be ideal, but it is available. What are the legs like on the A321? New, European and tres chic methinks. Or a nice GV for those hard to reach areas...
Grandpa Aerotart
Sorry to invade your space guys but if you'll permit a civvy ex airline, current Bizjet 'mate' a word.
Jacko I've flown 146s and they are slow, short on range and suffer terribly in ISA+, although gassing the pollies down back has some appeal. If the British aircraft industry built something(anything) that was suitable I'm sure it would be the charriot of choice, they don't.
You can't really avoid US tin.
A tricked up 747-300 or 767-300 would be good and not to expensive I would have thought.
If you really want to stay EU then Dassualt builds some very excellent aircraft such as the 900EX, and the mates would LOVE flying them(I can assure you guys)
An A340 and 900EX/2000EX Sdn would cover the needs in an efficient way although you might have a bit of trouble keeping the lads after they have 1000PIC on type
Chuck.
Jacko I've flown 146s and they are slow, short on range and suffer terribly in ISA+, although gassing the pollies down back has some appeal. If the British aircraft industry built something(anything) that was suitable I'm sure it would be the charriot of choice, they don't.
You can't really avoid US tin.
A tricked up 747-300 or 767-300 would be good and not to expensive I would have thought.
If you really want to stay EU then Dassualt builds some very excellent aircraft such as the 900EX, and the mates would LOVE flying them(I can assure you guys
)An A340 and 900EX/2000EX Sdn would cover the needs in an efficient way although you might have a bit of trouble keeping the lads after they have 1000PIC on type
Chuck.
One of the future RAF tanker proposals (before the wretched PFI concept was spawaned) was the A310MRTT which also had a VIP configuration layout.
When the RAF receives 767K, it wouldn't be hard to design a VIP-role cabin layout - but is that in the PPP contract? Wouldn't have been a problem if the aircraft belonged to the RAF. But, of course, only 32 officially has a VIP role these days, doesn't it.....?? So how come El Presidente Trust-me-Tone and his cronies still travel around in VC10s??
When the RAF receives 767K, it wouldn't be hard to design a VIP-role cabin layout - but is that in the PPP contract? Wouldn't have been a problem if the aircraft belonged to the RAF. But, of course, only 32 officially has a VIP role these days, doesn't it.....?? So how come El Presidente Trust-me-Tone and his cronies still travel around in VC10s??
A VIP/head of state aeroplane is all about image and national testicle weighing. Otherwise we'd just let Trustme Tony and Betty charter whatever they needed on an ad hoc basis.
No President of France would have a Boeing as his VIP aircraft, just as Dubya and his successors will never use an Airbus. Even Putin travels by VIP Il-62, rather than using one of 'flot's Boeings. Our lot must use a Britplane, even if it's unsuitable, inferior or inadequate, or perhaps an Airbus, as long as it appears to have UK plc stamped all over it.
And if they whine about the 146, then buy back some knackered 748s (or ATPs, there's a thought) and make them use those......
Surely second hand 330s and 340s are available cheaply right now, let alone 300s, 310s, etc.
No President of France would have a Boeing as his VIP aircraft, just as Dubya and his successors will never use an Airbus. Even Putin travels by VIP Il-62, rather than using one of 'flot's Boeings. Our lot must use a Britplane, even if it's unsuitable, inferior or inadequate, or perhaps an Airbus, as long as it appears to have UK plc stamped all over it.
And if they whine about the 146, then buy back some knackered 748s (or ATPs, there's a thought) and make them use those......
Surely second hand 330s and 340s are available cheaply right now, let alone 300s, 310s, etc.
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Echo Oscar the Saudia L1011s at a bargain price of $5,000,000 each?? 
For that sum I would insist on at least 10 aircraft. Prices have collapsed for the old Tristar I'm afraid.
I understand the RAF was offered complete L1011 airframes for nothing - and turned them down.
The Four-Ringer concerned muttered something about MOD bean-counters wanting to lease, off-balance sheet accounting, blah, blah blah.
Anyway, who wants the British Government turning up in yesterday's aircraft?
The solution is at hand. The Airbus A319CJ. Purpose built corporate jet that can be configured with a lovely VIP interior by thos nice chaps in Switzerland.
That should suit Phoney-Tony, Buff-Hoon and the other empty suits in the cabinet down to the ground.
For that sum I would insist on at least 10 aircraft. Prices have collapsed for the old Tristar I'm afraid.
I understand the RAF was offered complete L1011 airframes for nothing - and turned them down.
The Four-Ringer concerned muttered something about MOD bean-counters wanting to lease, off-balance sheet accounting, blah, blah blah.
Anyway, who wants the British Government turning up in yesterday's aircraft?
The solution is at hand. The Airbus A319CJ. Purpose built corporate jet that can be configured with a lovely VIP interior by thos nice chaps in Switzerland.
That should suit Phoney-Tony, Buff-Hoon and the other empty suits in the cabinet down to the ground.
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I never thought this would become so popular!!!! Still no indications that it's true though!!!!
This week's flight mentions Airbus using the A340-200 as a VIP (as used by many of our Middle Eastern friends). This would be good, on the civil register obviously!!!!
This week's flight mentions Airbus using the A340-200 as a VIP (as used by many of our Middle Eastern friends). This would be good, on the civil register obviously!!!!
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Try this link.
Airbus Corporate Jetliner
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]
Airbus Corporate Jetliner
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]
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Jacko,
"While we're at it shall we scrap all Buck House's Rollers and Downing Street's Jags, and make them all drive Daewoos or chevvys...?"
Would they be the terribly British Rollers (owned by Volkswagen AG) and the terribly British Jags (now pronounced Yaag-Waahs) in homage to their American owners, Ford??
As an aside, the A310 makes an excellent VIP jet.
"While we're at it shall we scrap all Buck House's Rollers and Downing Street's Jags, and make them all drive Daewoos or chevvys...?"
Would they be the terribly British Rollers (owned by Volkswagen AG) and the terribly British Jags (now pronounced Yaag-Waahs) in homage to their American owners, Ford??
As an aside, the A310 makes an excellent VIP jet.
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The PM has decided he needs 'status' toy along the lines of the US as the reliability/access of/to the VC10 & L1011's is limited during times of 'crisis'. An Airline I know has been approached to provide a VIP B757 along the lines of the USAF units with a minimal yearly hours guarantee for Government use. Suggestion was made that he could be using / order this by mid Summer 02.
And they say the NHS needs more investment!
And they say the NHS needs more investment!