Please tell me this should on JB Jokes thread.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 85
Posts: 5,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please tell me this should on JB Jokes thread.
RAF Planes May Be Used For Holiday Flights - Yahoo! News UK
Fourteen Airbus A330s are being bought by the company AirTanker and these will be leased by the Ministry of Defence.
The deal will cost the taxpayer an estimated £13bn over almost 30 years and is the world's biggest defence Private Finance Initiative.
When the aircraft are not being used by the RAF, AirTanker will make them available for commercial hire.
The deal will cost the taxpayer an estimated £13bn over almost 30 years and is the world's biggest defence Private Finance Initiative.
When the aircraft are not being used by the RAF, AirTanker will make them available for commercial hire.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Witney UK
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just in case anyone has missed it these are the FSTA aircraft. Mind you, since we first sought the aicraft[in 2000] I am not surprised that some people do not know that. Being a Private Finance Initiative deal the Government pretend they do not have to include the cost in the national debt. On time, OH YES???
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 85
Posts: 5,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This seems like a very efficient use of public money
"If they don't want the aircraft, or they don't want to fly them, then we take those aircraft and earn some money out of them."
If these aircraft are to replace the Tristar and VC10s then presumably they will be fitted with all the equipment necessary to operate into the current operational theatre and be flown in a manner to avoid possible threats from missile attack. Will the CAA be happy for these aircraft to be used for commercial purposes when not operated by the RAF?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a very old story but it raises several interesting points.
Presumably AirTanker has contractually sorted the issue of guaranteeing civil utilisation regardless of the MODs requirements.
Anbody know how long a re-role will take, as already stated all the mil kit will need to be removed. Does each return back to the civil world come with a guaranteed timescale? Presumably each frame will own both a civil and military registration mark to be applied a/r?
Why not make the crew all full time reservists and enable them to go back to the civil world with the aircraft?
Presumably AirTanker has contractually sorted the issue of guaranteeing civil utilisation regardless of the MODs requirements.
Anbody know how long a re-role will take, as already stated all the mil kit will need to be removed. Does each return back to the civil world come with a guaranteed timescale? Presumably each frame will own both a civil and military registration mark to be applied a/r?
Why not make the crew all full time reservists and enable them to go back to the civil world with the aircraft?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a precedent for the crewing issues in that the Merchant Navy serves when required in hostile areas. The Falklands war utilised many civilians deployed to the South Atlantic. Cannot see any problems with the planned use of PFI crews.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why?
This seems like a very efficient use of public money.
Other trades and services should take note.
This seems like a very efficient use of public money.
Other trades and services should take note.
House of Commons - Defence - Eleventh Report
When the aircraft are not being used by the RAF, AirTanker will make them available for commercial hire.
Such a wunnerful idea, this PFI thing. Just note how many other nations have adopted it.......
....so that'll be a round fat zero then? Thought so.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Falklands war utilised many civilians deployed to the South Atlantic
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mostly here, but often there
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the deal is not 'when the MOD don't need them' but more like 'we(Air Tanker)'ll have 5 on permanent third party revenue (one of which will be used for FI charter, thereby a self-generaying cash cow as one assumes DSCOM will pay Air Tanker the going rate) unless it's crisis, tension or war, when we'll think about letting you have those 5 back'.
As I say, this may now be hoop but it certainly rings a bell.
So that'll be 9 aircraft to replace 18 or so?
Discuss....
As I say, this may now be hoop but it certainly rings a bell.
So that'll be 9 aircraft to replace 18 or so?
Discuss....
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Far far away
Age: 53
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's an old story, and the availability question is one that I don't think will be answered until the aircraft are in service, and required for a sojourn to the badlands. Although BBB's note is interesting - AirTanker should be able to guarantee availability if they ringfence 5 frames for their own use. And the FI airbridge sounds genius (on the part of AT) - the MOD pays AT to maintain a fleet of aircraft, then pays them again, to fly the jet to the FI.
So the 13Bn initial outlay will be augmented by leasing the aircraft twice?
So the 13Bn initial outlay will be augmented by leasing the aircraft twice?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northwood
Age: 66
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the deal is not 'when the MOD don't need them' but more like 'we(Air Tanker)'ll have 5 on permanent third party revenue (one of which will be used for FI charter, thereby a self-generaying cash cow as one assumes DSCOM will pay Air Tanker the going rate) unless it's crisis, tension or war, when we'll think about letting you have those 5 back'.
One understands that when the Rental Air Farce PFI option was explained in depth to the OzAF, it received the sort of robust antipodean response it undoubtedly deserved.....
Something along the lines of "What an utter crock of an idea!", but perhaps rather more colourful in tone.
Something along the lines of "What an utter crock of an idea!", but perhaps rather more colourful in tone.
When the MOD accountants realise that one aircraft with twice the capacity is not necessarily a replacement for two aircraft, I think you will see all the AirTanker aircraft fully utilised by the RAF.....
