The Ground war: your thoughts?
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The Ground war: your thoughts?
Well, soldiers are on the ground in Afghanistan, so let's throw this out: what's your thoughts on the whole thing? Timing, type, tactics, what do you think should be happening? no one's asking you to provide top secret plans, speculation is enough (although no one's stopping you! 
). Let's get a lively debate going, hm?
I think I speak for most here in saying to them, God's speed and safe home.
). Let's get a lively debate going, hm?I think I speak for most here in saying to them, God's speed and safe home.
Well, I think that the Special Forces should invite that nasty Mr Laden to come out and explain his view on life, the Universe and everything to them. Then they should give him a first class sea trip back to the US in the loving care of the USMC before giving him a tour of the WTC site, including a 'meaningful discussion session' with the NYPD and FDNY. With no other witnesses.... If he survives that, then he should be given a pick and shovel, put into a chain-gang with his accomplices and worked non-stop until the WTC site is totally cleared. Before being summarily executed.
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
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Nah Beagle, why go to all that trouble? Just blow the bastard's brains out in an unfortunate accident.
Mr Whoeveryouare. We don't even speculate here. That is tantamount to doing the enemy's thinking for him. Now you wouldn't be..? Would you..?
Mr Whoeveryouare. We don't even speculate here. That is tantamount to doing the enemy's thinking for him. Now you wouldn't be..? Would you..?
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Having Rambled much of my life. I think "bumbling about in the Afgan Hill´s" waiting for him to show his face is a bad idea.
Why not invite him to form a coalition goverment like we do with all the other terrorists!
Why not invite him to form a coalition goverment like we do with all the other terrorists!
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I thought that "Special Forces" used stealth and guile. There was far too much hype and publicity about the Rangers' raid. As for OBL, one comic I read opined that his bodyguards are under orders to bump himm off rather than let him be captured. That would save a lot of fuss and bother (and expensive trials etc)
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What an optimism!
Ragazzi, unfortunantely, I think that lot of black bags will be delivered to USA and others. As I see, you have been told that it is Bin Laden. My opinion is that Bin Laden is only the tip of an iceberg, he is not alone, for sure.
You will have to turn eagle's head to arrows.
Ragazzi, unfortunantely, I think that lot of black bags will be delivered to USA and others. As I see, you have been told that it is Bin Laden. My opinion is that Bin Laden is only the tip of an iceberg, he is not alone, for sure.
You will have to turn eagle's head to arrows.
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roll roll,
You sound alot like the press during Desert Storm as they waxed eloquently about the awesome and fearsome "republican guards" these "elite warriors" ran like scared schoolgirls when confronted by a first class military! OBL's wacko-minions may talk a big game, but infa-red camera's perched high in outer space can track them and pick them off..our boys don't run, especially from 12th century tribeman! I'm sure casualties will occur, but there is no fear on the US side, just a hardened reserve to get the job done. Remember, its fashionable to portray Americans as fat, poorly dressed,loud etc. etc. but were the same people who stormed Normandy and Iwo Jima, and never turned tail! tougher battles have been fought, these jokers will be gone soon.
You sound alot like the press during Desert Storm as they waxed eloquently about the awesome and fearsome "republican guards" these "elite warriors" ran like scared schoolgirls when confronted by a first class military! OBL's wacko-minions may talk a big game, but infa-red camera's perched high in outer space can track them and pick them off..our boys don't run, especially from 12th century tribeman! I'm sure casualties will occur, but there is no fear on the US side, just a hardened reserve to get the job done. Remember, its fashionable to portray Americans as fat, poorly dressed,loud etc. etc. but were the same people who stormed Normandy and Iwo Jima, and never turned tail! tougher battles have been fought, these jokers will be gone soon.
Better to over-estimate the enemy and be proved wrong (as with the pi$$ poor Republican Guard) than to under-estimate them, and fall victim to complacency and under-preparation. Like in the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Somalia, the Lebanon, etc.
And if it's so easy, and if he and his henchmen can be so easily tracked how come Bin Laden's head isn't already on a spike, and how come we aren't already talking about it all in the past tense.
For what it's worth, these 12th Century tribesmen beat both Russian conscripts AND the Spesnatz and elite airborne troops, and it's all being fought on their territory. They seem no less dangerous than any of the other groups who've caused the US and Western military headaches and bloody noses in the past.
I hope and expect that the end result will be an inevitable US victory, but I'd be less sanguine that it will be entirely without pain and cost. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that it's a casualty-free walk-over.
I'm beginning to think that it needs to be decisive and quick on the ground, because public (and especially international) support seems to be waning.
And if it's so easy, and if he and his henchmen can be so easily tracked how come Bin Laden's head isn't already on a spike, and how come we aren't already talking about it all in the past tense.
For what it's worth, these 12th Century tribesmen beat both Russian conscripts AND the Spesnatz and elite airborne troops, and it's all being fought on their territory. They seem no less dangerous than any of the other groups who've caused the US and Western military headaches and bloody noses in the past.
I hope and expect that the end result will be an inevitable US victory, but I'd be less sanguine that it will be entirely without pain and cost. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that it's a casualty-free walk-over.
I'm beginning to think that it needs to be decisive and quick on the ground, because public (and especially international) support seems to be waning.
Jacketc. I suggest to you public support is no less, it is just that the media has found more of the vocal minority to sell more advertising for them.
If you happen upon a Peace Rally do the following
STEP 1) Approach an ignorant, liberal person talking about peace and saying there should be "no retaliation."
STEP 2) Have a brief conversation with him and ask if military force is appropriate.
STEP 3) When he says, "No," ask him, "Why not?"
STEP 4) When he says, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful, and we should not cause more violence."
STEP 5) Punch him in the face, really hard.
STEP 6) When he gets up to punch you, point out to him that it would be a mistake to punch you (and contrary to his values) because he would be causing more violence.
STEP 7) When he agrees with you that he has pledged not to commit violence, punch him in the face again, only even harder this time.
STEP 8) Repeat steps 2 through 7 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.
If you happen upon a Peace Rally do the following
STEP 1) Approach an ignorant, liberal person talking about peace and saying there should be "no retaliation."
STEP 2) Have a brief conversation with him and ask if military force is appropriate.
STEP 3) When he says, "No," ask him, "Why not?"
STEP 4) When he says, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful, and we should not cause more violence."
STEP 5) Punch him in the face, really hard.
STEP 6) When he gets up to punch you, point out to him that it would be a mistake to punch you (and contrary to his values) because he would be causing more violence.
STEP 7) When he agrees with you that he has pledged not to commit violence, punch him in the face again, only even harder this time.
STEP 8) Repeat steps 2 through 7 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.
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Jackonicko,
Good point, I sometime let my emotions take over the keyboard, however, unlike some on this forum, I am impressed with the well thought out, calculating, and patient offensive mounted by the allies so far. As for why Osama's head isn't on a stick, how about this scenario.....we know where he's hiding, and were intercepting all his communications. Wouldn't it be a huge windfall of data/evidence of his network and who is running it??? food for thought. As long as we have him, we can thwart any other planned attacks and get further insight into the inner workings of his pathetic network. I'd like to believe this is whats happening. I still stand by my assertation of 12th century tribesmen, The average Russian, like the average Yank in Nam, didn't have their heart in the fight, its different here, and when you have the technology that we possess, coupled with the capability to exploit it, it is just too overwhelming for these criminals....time will tell.
Good point, I sometime let my emotions take over the keyboard, however, unlike some on this forum, I am impressed with the well thought out, calculating, and patient offensive mounted by the allies so far. As for why Osama's head isn't on a stick, how about this scenario.....we know where he's hiding, and were intercepting all his communications. Wouldn't it be a huge windfall of data/evidence of his network and who is running it??? food for thought. As long as we have him, we can thwart any other planned attacks and get further insight into the inner workings of his pathetic network. I'd like to believe this is whats happening. I still stand by my assertation of 12th century tribesmen, The average Russian, like the average Yank in Nam, didn't have their heart in the fight, its different here, and when you have the technology that we possess, coupled with the capability to exploit it, it is just too overwhelming for these criminals....time will tell.
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Mmmm, asymmetric operations using (mostly) conventional ( and yes, Royal Marines are conventional albeit very,very good) in a hostile environment that is about to get even more hostile when the snow comes using a weapon system that doesn't work properly but we might just get the new system to the troops that get pinged for the job in time wearing boots that were designed for the desert....or maybe not because we didn't have enough money to buy a pair of desert boots for everyone on Ex SS.
Rather you than me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good to see that Airborne Ops do still have a role albeit in a very benign op.
Rather you than me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good to see that Airborne Ops do still have a role albeit in a very benign op.
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Any old peasant rag head, can kill the most up to date stormtrooper with any pre 1900 rifle, of that there is no doubt, so immense care must be taken with all our troopers live's, but it is totally wrong of the newsgroups to give these Rag heads the title of soldiers, or even refer to them as an Army, they are not, they are a rabble of uneducated bully boys, take their weapons from them and then see how hard they are then, I don't think you would find one who could match any of the Americans or the Brits, who will be helping to sort out this skirmish, and as for our Allies, like Belgium or Saudi, seems time to cut them adrift, the Saudi's will soon start to scream like girls when they get their bit of civil unrest, and guess who they will ask to help, well when that happens, its time to remember who stood up this time. Good to see the Russians are seemingly on side,.. at least? arn't they?
I may be from a different time or mind set, but it is time to forget the niceties of human rights and the politically correct ways, and take out all those who have been involved in the Sept 11th, No trials, No prison terms, just taken out!!
George W was right when he said " Your either with us, or against us" anyone who is against us should be ended PDQ, and if we have any bleedings hearts in our Armed forces who can't handle that like in the last Arabian debacle then they should be out, and replaced.
I may be from a different time or mind set, but it is time to forget the niceties of human rights and the politically correct ways, and take out all those who have been involved in the Sept 11th, No trials, No prison terms, just taken out!!
George W was right when he said " Your either with us, or against us" anyone who is against us should be ended PDQ, and if we have any bleedings hearts in our Armed forces who can't handle that like in the last Arabian debacle then they should be out, and replaced.
Roc,
Like I say, I hope that you're right, and that they're pygmies. But I think that their hearts are in it too!
xxxx
JN
VFR
From a different mind-set, or a different planet?
This kind of jingoistic ill-informed nonsense would be funny, were lives not at stake. To take issue with just one of your statements (I haven't time or energy for a full-on rant)
"it is totally wrong of the newsgroups to give these Rag heads the title of soldiers, or even refer to them as an Army, they are not, they are a rabble of uneducated bully boys, take their weapons from them and then see how hard they are then, I don't think you would find one who could match any of the Americans or the Brits"
Suggest you ask Tom Carew (ex-SAS chap who went out there to train them against the Sovs) whether or not they can fight, and whether or not they're fit. I wonder whether they're more well acclimatised to fighting in those Afghan mountains than Western troops? Couldn't be could they, untermensch that they are......
Grow up.
Like I say, I hope that you're right, and that they're pygmies. But I think that their hearts are in it too!
xxxx
JN
VFR
From a different mind-set, or a different planet?
This kind of jingoistic ill-informed nonsense would be funny, were lives not at stake. To take issue with just one of your statements (I haven't time or energy for a full-on rant)
"it is totally wrong of the newsgroups to give these Rag heads the title of soldiers, or even refer to them as an Army, they are not, they are a rabble of uneducated bully boys, take their weapons from them and then see how hard they are then, I don't think you would find one who could match any of the Americans or the Brits"
Suggest you ask Tom Carew (ex-SAS chap who went out there to train them against the Sovs) whether or not they can fight, and whether or not they're fit. I wonder whether they're more well acclimatised to fighting in those Afghan mountains than Western troops? Couldn't be could they, untermensch that they are......
Grow up.
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Hi Jacko,
History tells us many things, one of them was that the SAS helped to train certain sections the Mujahaddin(spelling)not, and I repeat, not the Taliban. Seems also that you may be one of the jerks ( or could you be a bleeding heart)who is giving the Taliban the grander title's than they deserve, I'll stick with what I said, they are a Rabble of Bully Boys! who should be dealt with PDQ!
You sound like Belgium, would be just your bag!!
History tells us many things, one of them was that the SAS helped to train certain sections the Mujahaddin(spelling)not, and I repeat, not the Taliban. Seems also that you may be one of the jerks ( or could you be a bleeding heart)who is giving the Taliban the grander title's than they deserve, I'll stick with what I said, they are a Rabble of Bully Boys! who should be dealt with PDQ!
You sound like Belgium, would be just your bag!!
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Roc!
I started to doubt in my English.I didn't underestimate USA or others (I saw you at work), I just said that this sort of optimism is strange for me.It is childish and foolish, especially among proffessionals.
If you want to encourage yourself, OK. But it is the first time in your history to have external war expecting and having internal casualities (except Pearl Harbour, but it was at outskirts of your country). As I see, you expect, because of huge technological supremacy, that you will lose no one soldier. You wouldn't believe if I tell you how modern war technology can be easily confused and disabled, by very cheap tricks.After all , those 12th century tribemen learned to fly, coordinated that big action and... to not mention the result.
I wish you all the best and less as possible casualities, but...
P.S.
I have no such prejudices about Americans, as you told. On the contrary, good old Am's are just as others, but they have to finally realize that fact.
I started to doubt in my English.I didn't underestimate USA or others (I saw you at work), I just said that this sort of optimism is strange for me.It is childish and foolish, especially among proffessionals.
If you want to encourage yourself, OK. But it is the first time in your history to have external war expecting and having internal casualities (except Pearl Harbour, but it was at outskirts of your country). As I see, you expect, because of huge technological supremacy, that you will lose no one soldier. You wouldn't believe if I tell you how modern war technology can be easily confused and disabled, by very cheap tricks.After all , those 12th century tribemen learned to fly, coordinated that big action and... to not mention the result.
I wish you all the best and less as possible casualities, but...
P.S.
I have no such prejudices about Americans, as you told. On the contrary, good old Am's are just as others, but they have to finally realize that fact.
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RollRoll,
No offence taken at all by your post, Sorry if I came across a little peeved. I just can't give these guys as much credit as others, I know it is better to err on the safe side, but thats not my job thankfully.
Take care.
No offence taken at all by your post, Sorry if I came across a little peeved. I just can't give these guys as much credit as others, I know it is better to err on the safe side, but thats not my job thankfully.
Take care.