RAF Leuchars Airshow Chaos??
I remember acting as one of the parking attendants on the 43 Sqn site 20 years ago and we suffered the same problems for the same reasons. It was noticeable that the experienced visitors were the ones who set up the evening picnic as the last flying display finished and the rush to the cars began.
The frustration felt by the drivers was made worse by the fact that the drivers on 43's site were being routed round the peri track to the south but, while gridlocked, could see the cars from the car park at the threshold of 22 emptying northwards quite easily. However, we were forbidden from letting the cars out of the site's top entrance and joining the flow on the basis that the drivers would exit the base and then try to turn south, creating more problems.
One redeeming feature was that there was a massive bucket of penny sweets pre-positioned in the crew room so that after an hour of gridlock, we went up an down the rows of cars giving the sweets out for free. Amazing how much it defused the situation - kids suddenly had something better to do than wind up their parents!
The frustration felt by the drivers was made worse by the fact that the drivers on 43's site were being routed round the peri track to the south but, while gridlocked, could see the cars from the car park at the threshold of 22 emptying northwards quite easily. However, we were forbidden from letting the cars out of the site's top entrance and joining the flow on the basis that the drivers would exit the base and then try to turn south, creating more problems.
One redeeming feature was that there was a massive bucket of penny sweets pre-positioned in the crew room so that after an hour of gridlock, we went up an down the rows of cars giving the sweets out for free. Amazing how much it defused the situation - kids suddenly had something better to do than wind up their parents!
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Got to agree with Red Line. Been there, got the t-shirt. It doesn't matter who's running it and with what personnel, the roads plain cannot cope with the exodus at the end of the show. I can remember punch ups between RAF guys and stroppy drivers who couldn't understand that it wasn't our fault! Also remember handing out the sweets, unsold programmes and oyher gizzets. Big smiles all round.
As a civvie attending over the past years, in my opinion things have got better since the Fife police introduced the one way system around the roads about 10 years or so ago. If you're local though you'll still know what back raods to use to by pass the traffic.
Park and Ride sounds like a good idea and the train service has always been an excellent way of getting there and away.
As a civvie attending over the past years, in my opinion things have got better since the Fife police introduced the one way system around the roads about 10 years or so ago. If you're local though you'll still know what back raods to use to by pass the traffic.
Park and Ride sounds like a good idea and the train service has always been an excellent way of getting there and away.
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My aim was to show off the Service I am proud to be a member of to the public. A huge team of people put together a superb show that has bought plaudits from a many quarters. Not only was the entire Station involved in the air show but also (due to the reduced manning at Leuchars) were approximatley 180 other personnel from across the RAF, council and emergency services and a number of contractors. The dissapointing experience of several hundred people when they came to leave the unit reflects badly on them and their hard work - I have let them down.
This was my second ever Airshow at RAF Leuchars and I opted for the enthusiasts package this year which exceeded all my expectations, the hospitality was second to none and nothing was too much trouble for the RAF personnel, thank you for a phenomenal 2 days!
I would have been happy to sit in traffic for 6 hours just to have witnessed the F-16, Typhoon and Mig-29 displays (but then I'm a geek!).
Thank you once again for organising such a superb show
Tiki
Climebear,
Thanks for that.
I was one of those stuck with a young friend in that North East end jam for ~ 3 3/4 hours. (Luckily we had an old set of Ace of Aces air war game books to while away the time - plus plenty departing aeroplanes to see. No point getting mad.)
Rather a disappointing end to a fine show overall - well done & even more for being so honest onn here. OK, I'm guilty, I looked at the P&R option, discarded it, even though I was coming from the north. Next time....
I was a shade disappointed that there was so little Leuchars heavy metal around, and that several RAF machines were presented in what I thought was very dirty condition, a marked contrast to our European allies' efforts. I guess this reflects services overstretch and the rundown - or was it just bad luck?
Thanks for that.
I was one of those stuck with a young friend in that North East end jam for ~ 3 3/4 hours. (Luckily we had an old set of Ace of Aces air war game books to while away the time - plus plenty departing aeroplanes to see. No point getting mad.)
Rather a disappointing end to a fine show overall - well done & even more for being so honest onn here. OK, I'm guilty, I looked at the P&R option, discarded it, even though I was coming from the north. Next time....
I was a shade disappointed that there was so little Leuchars heavy metal around, and that several RAF machines were presented in what I thought was very dirty condition, a marked contrast to our European allies' efforts. I guess this reflects services overstretch and the rundown - or was it just bad luck?
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Climebear
May i first compliment you on what was a superb airshow. It was my first visit to RAF Leuchars and i will certainly be back again.
Secondly, to the people who decided to park on the base and complain about the traffic. Leuchars is a pretty small rural town which had approx 50,000 people all descending on it on the same day and then all leaving at the same time. The town is simply not designed to cope with this amount of traffic. If you choose to drive onto the base then that is your choice, but don't complain about the traffic on the way out when there is a perfectly good alternative available (park and ride).
So next year, instead of complaining about the inevitable traffic jams use the park and ride.
May i first compliment you on what was a superb airshow. It was my first visit to RAF Leuchars and i will certainly be back again.
Secondly, to the people who decided to park on the base and complain about the traffic. Leuchars is a pretty small rural town which had approx 50,000 people all descending on it on the same day and then all leaving at the same time. The town is simply not designed to cope with this amount of traffic. If you choose to drive onto the base then that is your choice, but don't complain about the traffic on the way out when there is a perfectly good alternative available (park and ride).
So next year, instead of complaining about the inevitable traffic jams use the park and ride.
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Climebear - first of all, thanks for a great show. Yes, the reduced numbers of RAF personnel and the pressures on operational hardware were noticeable but it is to everyone's credit that notwithstanding this there was a full flying programme and a resonable ground display. I too was caught up in the exit delays but these were hardly unexpected. As a former OC GD Leuchars I can sympathise with your problem. About 18 years ago there were appalling problems and we redesigned the whole car parking arrangements. It seemed to me that some of the lessons we learnt then have been forgotten as the traffic routes seemed strange to say the least. Still, there is always next year! What concerned me most was that we drove onto the Station and parked without anyone checking that we had a parking ticket (we had bought in advance) or any attempt being made to charge on the day. If this was a universal problem I would be concerned about the income lost and about the affect on advance parking ticket sales next year if people think they will park for nothing on the day.
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Certainly not the first time it's taken me 4 hours to get out of Leuchars - one year it took me 3 hours to move out the 43 HAS site. Couple of years I have left early to get out the Main Gate or the Morth side then round to the south. It was easier the years I was working there!!
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Sat in static traffic for an hour and twenty minutes with NO parking staff to be seen anywhere.
We eventually got out after two and a half hours.
Climebear, I suggest you go talk to the Duxford people.
They hold at least 5 shows a year with more traffic, similar access problems and still manage to achieve excellent traffic flow.
If this is not possible stop ALL airfield parking, or is the extra £8 per car too much of a carrot to ignore.
There was a total absence of organisation as far as traffic management was concerned.
A total lack of station staff as well as the obviously 'in for the day' civvies who hid in groups.
PPPPPP!!!
I am sure there was an operational reason for all the no - shows, mostly from the RAF.
Thankfully, the Poles, Czechs, Belgians and Dutch were there to save the day - one might say a true Battle of Britain show.
I was dissapointed that the host station could only manage a take off , a brief fly by and an unannounced landing by an F3 in the station's final year with the type - poor show.
It's the main reason I went.
I thought that the departure of the F3 after such a long time would be celebrated - maybee you are all just glad to see it go.
We were blessed by excellent weather, I spent many hours looking at the burning sun.
While the good weather was an oddity after last year, you have to wonder if it's such a good idea holding a show at an airfield with an east - west runway with the crowd line looking south in September with the sun fairly low in the sky.
While I totally understand that the geography of the airfield is unchangable, practically that everybody I spoke to on the day commented on this.
Given the lack of flying support at all of this years UK airshows by the RAF and USAF - well frankly it was almost non existant - one has to ask the if there will be more than the now obligatory Grob , King Air ,Arrows and BBMF in the future?
Rant over , money spent - oh that's the point ,isn't it?
We eventually got out after two and a half hours.
Climebear, I suggest you go talk to the Duxford people.
They hold at least 5 shows a year with more traffic, similar access problems and still manage to achieve excellent traffic flow.
If this is not possible stop ALL airfield parking, or is the extra £8 per car too much of a carrot to ignore.
There was a total absence of organisation as far as traffic management was concerned.
A total lack of station staff as well as the obviously 'in for the day' civvies who hid in groups.
PPPPPP!!!
I am sure there was an operational reason for all the no - shows, mostly from the RAF.
Thankfully, the Poles, Czechs, Belgians and Dutch were there to save the day - one might say a true Battle of Britain show.
I was dissapointed that the host station could only manage a take off , a brief fly by and an unannounced landing by an F3 in the station's final year with the type - poor show.
It's the main reason I went.
I thought that the departure of the F3 after such a long time would be celebrated - maybee you are all just glad to see it go.
We were blessed by excellent weather, I spent many hours looking at the burning sun.
While the good weather was an oddity after last year, you have to wonder if it's such a good idea holding a show at an airfield with an east - west runway with the crowd line looking south in September with the sun fairly low in the sky.
While I totally understand that the geography of the airfield is unchangable, practically that everybody I spoke to on the day commented on this.
Given the lack of flying support at all of this years UK airshows by the RAF and USAF - well frankly it was almost non existant - one has to ask the if there will be more than the now obligatory Grob , King Air ,Arrows and BBMF in the future?
Rant over , money spent - oh that's the point ,isn't it?
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Forget any of the chaos this is really what it is all about, Mike I live in Balmullo and live with the traffic. Well done for making this Lad"s day.
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Sorry to 'not care less' but I don't see what Climebear (or Leuchars) have to say sorry for. I've read lots of posts about people who seem to think they can arrive at 09.30 and head straught in, and moan when they get caught in a queue. No sympathy.
You read about it all the time, with various events, and to be honest, anyone who thinks they can just arrive last gasp without delays is deluded.
Similarly, on leaving, no-one can expect to jump in the car and fly staright out. It's just not possible.
Now, I've not attended Leuchars for about 5 years. Previously, my last car arrival was in the 1980s. Since then, I have used the train (and smugly sat lookong at queues of traffic). However, this year, my local line had a diverted service, and as I was taking an Uncle up also, the line where he was happened to be closed for engineering. So, I picked him up and we arrived in Cupar at 08.10. I chose NOT to use the park and ride as I was prepared to endure delays on the way out (and in fact planned to leave early).
Anyway... we arrived with absolutely no problem. Eventually, we headed back to the car later than intended (16.10). It was 20.00 before we had moved more than fifty feet. Once on the tarmac heading to the top of RWY22, things started to move. Apparently the south road was not in use for some time, and was opened up at some point, although I am not sure about this???
So..... at 20.20 (after watching someone go full throttle and a steward leaping out the way at the gate) we got through the perimeter. With a couple of dodges I had clear roads all the way home (Livingston then Grangemouth).
What DOES irk me is once I got so far toward the exit, I saw a bunch of Stewards standing doing nothing. (and a few RAF bods walking passed looking quite annoyed). At no point in the nearly four hours was any information forthcoming or any attempt to regulate traffic that I could see from where we were. Basically three lanes were squeezed into one to get onto Earshall road, and the trade traffic was joining from the western road alongside 22... with priority for a period, this scuppered the 'normal' vehicles. At about this time, some traffic was getting sent to the south road and there was basically a clash of direction on 22.
To sum up, 2-2.5 hours would be 'a hassle' but not unexpected for getting out, and in no way complainable.
What's my (lowly) opinion? Well, I can't see how (realising there may be a good reason I am not aware of) all traffic was not sent out the south road leaving priority traffic to the north. All traffic could go via guardbridge (left turn), down to the A91, and traffic for the north taking the A914 just before Dairsie. Certainly every visit I have made to Leuchars has seen the south road in use.
The other benefit is that as traffic strings along the south road, it does empty the car parks a little quicker and things move (allbeit slowly). The Earshall road exit didn't make a lot of sense to me I'm afraid - there was just no direction of traffic until the light started to fade.
Also, I feel that a 'one way' system is needed (and has to be enforced) -if the traffic was marshalled so that when exiting it is obvious (and policed) that all traffic needs to go 'via' a coned or obvious line, then people know where they stand. Yes - the chaos was 90% down to EVERYONE trying to get out at once, and the lot grinding to a halt...... but if the traffic was directed, it would surely avoid some confusion.
I have the distinct feeling that if traffic had been allowed to use the priority exit road to Earshall, things would have went a lot quicker.
Next time, (assuming they run) I'll use the train. I'm not worried by the delay - but do think that somewhere late in the day some sort of total comms failure occured with the company in charge of the traffic, combined with the lack of stewards doing anything, and (possibly) the choice of exit route at Earshall.
I certainly don't say the RAF are to blame. Realistically the Earshall route was as good as any other, but the way traffic was guided to it (or not) seemed the major cause of delay.
You read about it all the time, with various events, and to be honest, anyone who thinks they can just arrive last gasp without delays is deluded.
Similarly, on leaving, no-one can expect to jump in the car and fly staright out. It's just not possible.
Now, I've not attended Leuchars for about 5 years. Previously, my last car arrival was in the 1980s. Since then, I have used the train (and smugly sat lookong at queues of traffic). However, this year, my local line had a diverted service, and as I was taking an Uncle up also, the line where he was happened to be closed for engineering. So, I picked him up and we arrived in Cupar at 08.10. I chose NOT to use the park and ride as I was prepared to endure delays on the way out (and in fact planned to leave early).
Anyway... we arrived with absolutely no problem. Eventually, we headed back to the car later than intended (16.10). It was 20.00 before we had moved more than fifty feet. Once on the tarmac heading to the top of RWY22, things started to move. Apparently the south road was not in use for some time, and was opened up at some point, although I am not sure about this???
So..... at 20.20 (after watching someone go full throttle and a steward leaping out the way at the gate) we got through the perimeter. With a couple of dodges I had clear roads all the way home (Livingston then Grangemouth).
What DOES irk me is once I got so far toward the exit, I saw a bunch of Stewards standing doing nothing. (and a few RAF bods walking passed looking quite annoyed). At no point in the nearly four hours was any information forthcoming or any attempt to regulate traffic that I could see from where we were. Basically three lanes were squeezed into one to get onto Earshall road, and the trade traffic was joining from the western road alongside 22... with priority for a period, this scuppered the 'normal' vehicles. At about this time, some traffic was getting sent to the south road and there was basically a clash of direction on 22.
To sum up, 2-2.5 hours would be 'a hassle' but not unexpected for getting out, and in no way complainable.
What's my (lowly) opinion? Well, I can't see how (realising there may be a good reason I am not aware of) all traffic was not sent out the south road leaving priority traffic to the north. All traffic could go via guardbridge (left turn), down to the A91, and traffic for the north taking the A914 just before Dairsie. Certainly every visit I have made to Leuchars has seen the south road in use.
The other benefit is that as traffic strings along the south road, it does empty the car parks a little quicker and things move (allbeit slowly). The Earshall road exit didn't make a lot of sense to me I'm afraid - there was just no direction of traffic until the light started to fade.
Also, I feel that a 'one way' system is needed (and has to be enforced) -if the traffic was marshalled so that when exiting it is obvious (and policed) that all traffic needs to go 'via' a coned or obvious line, then people know where they stand. Yes - the chaos was 90% down to EVERYONE trying to get out at once, and the lot grinding to a halt...... but if the traffic was directed, it would surely avoid some confusion.
I have the distinct feeling that if traffic had been allowed to use the priority exit road to Earshall, things would have went a lot quicker.
Next time, (assuming they run) I'll use the train. I'm not worried by the delay - but do think that somewhere late in the day some sort of total comms failure occured with the company in charge of the traffic, combined with the lack of stewards doing anything, and (possibly) the choice of exit route at Earshall.
I certainly don't say the RAF are to blame. Realistically the Earshall route was as good as any other, but the way traffic was guided to it (or not) seemed the major cause of delay.
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Leuchars from the Navy's point of view
Climb Bear.......
I really enjoyed the whole experience, i was the guy in white shirt on the static harrier display selling www.homeoftheharrier.com prints and various other squadron wares.
Being in the Navy this was one of the biggest UK military airshows i have participated in. And yes it took me 2 hours to get back to the Dundee Hilton but all the time i saw stewards and coppers they were all jovial and very helpful
Your staff at the guard room when i turned up were excellent from the corporal in the guard room who was being swamped with passes to the squadron leader who took me out onto the pan to see where the Harrier was parked, all had a great sense of humuor and very helpful.
My boss was pleased that i had sold nearly £800 worth of squadron merchandise and has hinted that i can do it again next year. So thanks to all the guys at RAF Leuchars, yes we all had to endure some waiting to get out of the base but such is life, and even if you had paid £1 or £100 for a ticket everyone would endure the same problem.
I really enjoyed the whole experience, i was the guy in white shirt on the static harrier display selling www.homeoftheharrier.com prints and various other squadron wares.
Being in the Navy this was one of the biggest UK military airshows i have participated in. And yes it took me 2 hours to get back to the Dundee Hilton but all the time i saw stewards and coppers they were all jovial and very helpful
Your staff at the guard room when i turned up were excellent from the corporal in the guard room who was being swamped with passes to the squadron leader who took me out onto the pan to see where the Harrier was parked, all had a great sense of humuor and very helpful.
My boss was pleased that i had sold nearly £800 worth of squadron merchandise and has hinted that i can do it again next year. So thanks to all the guys at RAF Leuchars, yes we all had to endure some waiting to get out of the base but such is life, and even if you had paid £1 or £100 for a ticket everyone would endure the same problem.
Having experienced six airshows during my time at Leuchars (S&M Sqn always got the car parking task!!), it comes as no surprise that there are those who expect a F1 Grand Prix-style departure from the base. Every year the roads were choked before and after the show and, as RLE said, the experienced ones came prepared for a wait. I don't recall the south side of the airfield being used for car-parking during my time there - all traffic came through either the main gate or along Earlshall Road and was parked on the northern loop. It didn't help when some visitors wanted to leave before the show even started! Car parking duties was a thankless task then and it sounds like it still is. What a lot of people forget is that Leuchars was built as a site for military operations and not as an arena for public entertainment. Climbear - no need for an apology, some folks will always find a excuse for a moan. The only difference between then and now is the internet.
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We used the train from Dundee - easy - a bit busy but was in & out with no drama.
In all a great show. It was wonderful to see the the Vulcan flying - definitely the highlight of the show. The Arrows & BBMF put on their usual top-notch shows - quite stirring to see the Lancaster indulging in a little low-level.
One comment I would have is that there seemed to be long queues for the few toilets available.
Congratulations to all involved.
In all a great show. It was wonderful to see the the Vulcan flying - definitely the highlight of the show. The Arrows & BBMF put on their usual top-notch shows - quite stirring to see the Lancaster indulging in a little low-level.
One comment I would have is that there seemed to be long queues for the few toilets available.
Congratulations to all involved.
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As Climebear says, there were 50000 or so visitors.
Surely we're not going to get all of them come in here and tell us what happened to them. Certainly seems like it!
I think the organisers have enough feedback and information to be able to improve next year's situation now. Sorry if you disagree.
Surely we're not going to get all of them come in here and tell us what happened to them. Certainly seems like it!
I think the organisers have enough feedback and information to be able to improve next year's situation now. Sorry if you disagree.
