VC10 Court Martial?
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Presumably the squealer will be called to give evidence at the CM (best evidence). Remember that Courts Martial are public trials. Ergo, his name should be plastered all over the press. Hoorah! 
Avoid imitations
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Diff-ident,
Yes, take CO away from Account and what have you left?
The bu@@ers made me take 11,000 pounds cash to Denmark in the early 1980's. It filled a second navbag and there was no safe at the task location so I spent 2 weeks cuddling it and using it as a pillow. It was definitely a flight safety hazard as I didn't get much sleep. I brought most of it back unused and unissued.
Thank goodness I now work for someone with a brain who gives me a Diners card and allows me to sign stuff off when the bills come in.
ShyT
Yes, take CO away from Account and what have you left?
The bu@@ers made me take 11,000 pounds cash to Denmark in the early 1980's. It filled a second navbag and there was no safe at the task location so I spent 2 weeks cuddling it and using it as a pillow. It was definitely a flight safety hazard as I didn't get much sleep. I brought most of it back unused and unissued.
Thank goodness I now work for someone with a brain who gives me a Diners card and allows me to sign stuff off when the bills come in.
ShyT
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Well done to the Person concerned.
As I promised to him this pm, here are the details of his solicitor. If anyone has any problems, give Tony a shout, he will sort you out:
Tony Miles
Bobbetts Mackan Solicitors
17 Berkley Square
Clifton
BRISTOL
BS8 1HB
Tel: 0117 929 9001
Fax: 0117 922 5697
If you weren't there, it was GREAT seeing him rubbish the prosecution's witnesses with such ease! If Tony ever winks, you know you're doing well.
As I promised to him this pm, here are the details of his solicitor. If anyone has any problems, give Tony a shout, he will sort you out:
Tony Miles
Bobbetts Mackan Solicitors
17 Berkley Square
Clifton
BRISTOL
BS8 1HB
Tel: 0117 929 9001
Fax: 0117 922 5697
If you weren't there, it was GREAT seeing him rubbish the prosecution's witnesses with such ease! If Tony ever winks, you know you're doing well.
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thank god for that. could someone pass on my best wishes please - the majority of imprest holding ppruners were rooting for him.
so when does the NAO investigation into such a blatant and unnecessary waste of money start?
so when does the NAO investigation into such a blatant and unnecessary waste of money start?
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Sorry to keep putting up replies, but it will be interesting to see what side of the argument the "Daily Mail" and the the "Daily Telegraph" take on this as they were the 2 papers there to report the details.
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An excellent, and obviously correct, result.
I presume that the person/people who brought about this whole unnecessary affair will be held ACCOUNTable and pay the costs.
Anybody written to the Sun yet?
I presume that the person/people who brought about this whole unnecessary affair will be held ACCOUNTable and pay the costs.
Anybody written to the Sun yet?
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I hope that the papers have a 'kin field day with this....it must have cost us the tax payer in excess of £500k for that pile of shoyte. It makes me spit....all that crap for $18. What the fek are we playing at? Is this the way to go for a 'modern' Air Force?
I held an imprest that was given to me for an exped. The civvy that gave me my 5 min brief told me I could use it for unforseen circumstances if the need arose. It did..a 10 hour delay at a Southern French Airport, so I did use it...and copped the crap when I got back. The 'Civvy' denied all knowledge and claimed to have given me a 'thorough' 1 hr brief...I must have dozed off! Needless to sy it cost me nearly £150. Arse Biscuits and hoop to the lot of 'em
Rant finishes
Well done to the innocent party - whoever you are!
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Big Green Arrow ]
I held an imprest that was given to me for an exped. The civvy that gave me my 5 min brief told me I could use it for unforseen circumstances if the need arose. It did..a 10 hour delay at a Southern French Airport, so I did use it...and copped the crap when I got back. The 'Civvy' denied all knowledge and claimed to have given me a 'thorough' 1 hr brief...I must have dozed off! Needless to sy it cost me nearly £150. Arse Biscuits and hoop to the lot of 'em
Rant finishes
Well done to the innocent party - whoever you are!
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Big Green Arrow ]
Thread Starter
Only fitting to add my congrats - justice served!
I would still be interested to know if the RAF was FORCED to press the case - let's see the blame fall where it really belongs.
Eagerly awaiting tomorrow's Telegraph!
I would still be interested to know if the RAF was FORCED to press the case - let's see the blame fall where it really belongs.
Eagerly awaiting tomorrow's Telegraph!
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My sympathy to those of you who have to put up with this c--p. A few years back I was informed that I would be arrested over allegations of fraud during my time in Italy for the Balkans. As it turned out, 2 of my guys had put in a false claim (about £40 each)which I had countersigned just before going on a mission - part of the "Italian job". Although I was cleared of any wrongdoing, the lack of loyalty shown to me by the hierarchy in that I knew I had not done anything knowingly wrong was part of why I'm no longer with you guys - and I was one of those who lived and breathed for the job - ironically I received my Bosnia medal the same month I was told I would be arrested. Johnny Rotten was behind that BA recruitment drive - a man I had little respect for after flying with him in one of his jets when he displayed poor airmanship and broke his own rules. It sounds like the right outcome has happened in this case, I hope you are being lead by real men with big balls who will put the umbrella up for you over these crazy events. I know you'll do your duty if required in the current world situation, but make sure that when you've done one of the most demanding jobs you can ever do, that you cross the Tees and dot the Is because the P+SS and the beancounters will be after you if you don't.
I hope the git who reported this gets hung by his bo--ocks from a high place.
I hope the git who reported this gets hung by his bo--ocks from a high place.
From today's Torygraph:
'Fraud bill belonged to RAF superior' By Richard Savill (Filed: 29/09/2001)
A ROYAL AIR FORCE officer accused of falsifying expenses while on duty in Kenya was cleared yesterday after a court martial heard that the hotel bill concerned belonged to his superior officer.
The prosecution was made after a Tory councillor in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, who happened to be staying on holiday in the same hotel, complained to the Auditor-General in Britain. Flt Lt Derek Oetzmann, 29, was alleged to have charged private telephone calls amounting to 5005 Kenyan shillings (£47) to an RAF account, after negotiating with hotel staff to disguise them on the bill as breakfasts.
Emile Al-Uzaizi, 48, was in a queue behind Fl-Lt Oetzmann and other RAF officers at the hotel reception desk when the bill was paid, and claimed that he overheard Flt Lt Oetzmann negotiating with a cashier for the calls to appear as breakfasts. But Judge Advocate Paul Camp dismissed the case, saying that the Royal Air Force Police investigation had been inadequate, and suggested instead that there should be a police investigation into the actions of Sqn Ldr Al Green.
He said: "The reality is that if anyone is guilty of anything, he is much more the guilty party. They were his calls. It is, however, wrong to assume he is guilty at this stage."
Flt Lt Oetzmann, the credit card holder, who is stationed at RAF Brize Norton, Oxon, has taken part in operations in the Balkans, and last year carried his squadron's standard at the Battle of Britain 60th anniversary service at Westminster Abbey. He was staying at the hotel with other RAF pilots in February last year, after taking soldiers to Kenya for an exercise, codenamed Grand Prix.
Mr Al-Uzaizi wrote to the Auditor-General, who passed the complaint on to the Ministry of Defence. The ensuing RAF Police investigation and five-day court martial at RAF Brize Norton were thought to have cost up to £30,000. The court martial heard that none of the reception staff was spoken to during the initial police investigation. Printed telephone records were not made available until the final day of the hearing.
Dismissing the case the judge said: "I feel the police investigation was handled very badly. It must have been blindingly obvious that it was important for the receptionist to be interviewed. He added: "The process of collecting evidence at a meaningful stage has not taken place."
The judge said a fair trial could not take place, and he told Flt Lt Oetzmann: "This is a decision for all time. Even if it turned out that Sqn Ldr Green did make private calls there is no way that this can be re-opened against you."
Tony Miles, solicitor advocate for Flt Lt Oetzmann, said his client was "absolutely delighted that after 18 months this whole thing is over". He added: "He has had a good career in the RAF and he is looking forward to getting back to it without being preoccupied by matters that shouldn't have preoccupied him. The decision to prosecute was clearly taken at a time when all the information was not available. Fortunately it has turned out in a way that is satisfactory from my client's point of view. He is completely exonerated. My client has always maintained this was a false allegation. He is just very relieved. The pressure he has been under has been huge."
Mr Miles added: "The way in which the investigation was carried out meant it was not possible for us to have a fair trial. Evidence that may well have supported my client's position was no longer available through a lapse of time."
'Fraud bill belonged to RAF superior' By Richard Savill (Filed: 29/09/2001)
A ROYAL AIR FORCE officer accused of falsifying expenses while on duty in Kenya was cleared yesterday after a court martial heard that the hotel bill concerned belonged to his superior officer.
The prosecution was made after a Tory councillor in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, who happened to be staying on holiday in the same hotel, complained to the Auditor-General in Britain. Flt Lt Derek Oetzmann, 29, was alleged to have charged private telephone calls amounting to 5005 Kenyan shillings (£47) to an RAF account, after negotiating with hotel staff to disguise them on the bill as breakfasts.
Emile Al-Uzaizi, 48, was in a queue behind Fl-Lt Oetzmann and other RAF officers at the hotel reception desk when the bill was paid, and claimed that he overheard Flt Lt Oetzmann negotiating with a cashier for the calls to appear as breakfasts. But Judge Advocate Paul Camp dismissed the case, saying that the Royal Air Force Police investigation had been inadequate, and suggested instead that there should be a police investigation into the actions of Sqn Ldr Al Green.
He said: "The reality is that if anyone is guilty of anything, he is much more the guilty party. They were his calls. It is, however, wrong to assume he is guilty at this stage."
Flt Lt Oetzmann, the credit card holder, who is stationed at RAF Brize Norton, Oxon, has taken part in operations in the Balkans, and last year carried his squadron's standard at the Battle of Britain 60th anniversary service at Westminster Abbey. He was staying at the hotel with other RAF pilots in February last year, after taking soldiers to Kenya for an exercise, codenamed Grand Prix.
Mr Al-Uzaizi wrote to the Auditor-General, who passed the complaint on to the Ministry of Defence. The ensuing RAF Police investigation and five-day court martial at RAF Brize Norton were thought to have cost up to £30,000. The court martial heard that none of the reception staff was spoken to during the initial police investigation. Printed telephone records were not made available until the final day of the hearing.
Dismissing the case the judge said: "I feel the police investigation was handled very badly. It must have been blindingly obvious that it was important for the receptionist to be interviewed. He added: "The process of collecting evidence at a meaningful stage has not taken place."
The judge said a fair trial could not take place, and he told Flt Lt Oetzmann: "This is a decision for all time. Even if it turned out that Sqn Ldr Green did make private calls there is no way that this can be re-opened against you."
Tony Miles, solicitor advocate for Flt Lt Oetzmann, said his client was "absolutely delighted that after 18 months this whole thing is over". He added: "He has had a good career in the RAF and he is looking forward to getting back to it without being preoccupied by matters that shouldn't have preoccupied him. The decision to prosecute was clearly taken at a time when all the information was not available. Fortunately it has turned out in a way that is satisfactory from my client's point of view. He is completely exonerated. My client has always maintained this was a false allegation. He is just very relieved. The pressure he has been under has been huge."
Mr Miles added: "The way in which the investigation was carried out meant it was not possible for us to have a fair trial. Evidence that may well have supported my client's position was no longer available through a lapse of time."
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I wish I lived in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham - I would be sorely tempted to go over councillors' expenses with a fine tooth comb. Just to make sure that the said individual is squeeky clean.
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I too have had the onerous task of handling/oversigning imprests when I was in and it seems to me it now HAS to change.
The current system is from the dinasaur age. Aircrews of all brevets earnt them because of hard/expensive/professional training and because some one has certified that they are entrusted with other peoples safety. So trust them with their own Amex card account and let them settle their bills individually and leave the co-pilot to do his proper job. If some one screws up it doesn't then focus on the Co.
My advice to Flt Lt Oetzmann is sue the MOD after taking advice from his Solicitor. The Judge was damning of the MODs handling of the case just the like a Judge did earlier this year in my case. It will be a slow process and the MOD will try to grind you down but eventually they will pay up if you know you're in the right. I've receieved an interim but I'm not quite at full settlement yet.
One thing for sure is in his and my case the RAF departments who are supposed to be there to support the Frontline and its personnel have woefully let them down.
And they wonder why people leave?
The current system is from the dinasaur age. Aircrews of all brevets earnt them because of hard/expensive/professional training and because some one has certified that they are entrusted with other peoples safety. So trust them with their own Amex card account and let them settle their bills individually and leave the co-pilot to do his proper job. If some one screws up it doesn't then focus on the Co.
My advice to Flt Lt Oetzmann is sue the MOD after taking advice from his Solicitor. The Judge was damning of the MODs handling of the case just the like a Judge did earlier this year in my case. It will be a slow process and the MOD will try to grind you down but eventually they will pay up if you know you're in the right. I've receieved an interim but I'm not quite at full settlement yet.
One thing for sure is in his and my case the RAF departments who are supposed to be there to support the Frontline and its personnel have woefully let them down.
And they wonder why people leave?
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Great News, Del Boy
The cash I had pledged for your legal fund will be spent in a manner I know you'll approve of.
It does sound like the RAFs hand was forced here, but hopefully some good will come from this farce. It will obviously be no consolation to you, but if this in any way helps the powers that be to at least look at changing this archaic system we have then that will be a start.
Best of luck with your case.
The cash I had pledged for your legal fund will be spent in a manner I know you'll approve of.
It does sound like the RAFs hand was forced here, but hopefully some good will come from this farce. It will obviously be no consolation to you, but if this in any way helps the powers that be to at least look at changing this archaic system we have then that will be a start.
Best of luck with your case.
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If we retain the outdated FSI system then the very least that should be done is to remove the burden from the pilots and hand it to someone with time, a table and no requirment to fly an aeroplane. OC Accts at Brize did release a letter in about July 1999 giving authority for SNCOs to carry FSIs. This was after Co-pilots from all Sqns lobbied to get the ALMs to run the imprest. All looked rosey for a very short while until the Co-pilots were told that imprest holding and the associated accounting is good, character building stuff and promotes Officer Qualities.
The letter is available from the FSI office.
I refer to my previous posts about Flight Safety and would hope that they no longer appear quite so 'Am-Dram'.
Congratulations Del.
The letter is available from the FSI office.
I refer to my previous posts about Flight Safety and would hope that they no longer appear quite so 'Am-Dram'.
Congratulations Del.
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Something which we at Ice Station Kilo have been doing for about a year. The problem is, the briefings are still inadequate and, the burden of responsibilty for the Det's finances rests with one individual. 
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: maniac55 ]
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: maniac55 ]
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Congrats to the guy involved. In spite of the collosal waste of money there is still the thought that, had the white hats done there job properly, things may have turned out differently. Not because of guilt but by implied guilt using the service principle that if you are causing me hastle you are guilty. Surely it must be possible to stop the imprest system within some legislation like the human rights (untrained for the task), every little snotty-nose seems to be able to use it.
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Apparentely if you type the words "emile al-uzaizi" in your search engine you will be able to put a face to the name. Allegedly.
Not putting in a link means you have the choice to look or not !! I think.
Surprised to find he is a Tory counciller, what with their record on sleaze !!
Glad to see it was all thrown out. Maybe this will see the start of a much needed review in how allowances/expenses are paid to individuals.
TL
Not putting in a link means you have the choice to look or not !! I think.
Surprised to find he is a Tory counciller, what with their record on sleaze !!
Glad to see it was all thrown out. Maybe this will see the start of a much needed review in how allowances/expenses are paid to individuals.
TL
Let's get a reality check. The person who complained may have thought that he was listening to a routine method used by some to diddle HMG out of some dink. Reasonably, he may have felt righteous indignation and, as an elected public servant, felt that he needed the event investigated. But, in reality, he may have overheard the attempts of a frustrated account settler trying to sort out which were 'official' and which were 'private' calls on an hotel phone bill which was probably about as readable as a table of logarithms - and who might just have wanted to find an easy way out of the tortuous paperwork beloved of the Blunt Ones and was naiively looking for a creative solution to settle up and get away schnell.
But why would there be any phone calls on an hotel bill in the first place? We're supposed to use the Colt calling card for official calls or, if no land line is available, the Captain's GSM phone (and there are GSM networks in Kenya). The Blunt Ones have told us repeatedly that 'official' calls are only to be made from hotel phones in exceptional circumstances - however, I know full well that some people either simply can't be ar$ed to do as they've been told, or consider themselves above such orders.
This seems to have been a quest for a pound of flesh which failed. I don't blame the councillor for this farce - I blame the clumsy attempts by Plod to find Chummy 'Bang to Rights'. If there was any case to answer, why didn't someone just get a grip and say "Silly thing to do - get the money back from whoever owed it and we'll call the matter closed", instead of wasting a ridiculous amount of time and public money on an absurd witch hunt. The obscene pursuit of a hapless individual over such a matter was clearly out of all proportion to the allegations made and whoever made the daft decision to proceed should be hung out to dry!!.
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
But why would there be any phone calls on an hotel bill in the first place? We're supposed to use the Colt calling card for official calls or, if no land line is available, the Captain's GSM phone (and there are GSM networks in Kenya). The Blunt Ones have told us repeatedly that 'official' calls are only to be made from hotel phones in exceptional circumstances - however, I know full well that some people either simply can't be ar$ed to do as they've been told, or consider themselves above such orders.
This seems to have been a quest for a pound of flesh which failed. I don't blame the councillor for this farce - I blame the clumsy attempts by Plod to find Chummy 'Bang to Rights'. If there was any case to answer, why didn't someone just get a grip and say "Silly thing to do - get the money back from whoever owed it and we'll call the matter closed", instead of wasting a ridiculous amount of time and public money on an absurd witch hunt. The obscene pursuit of a hapless individual over such a matter was clearly out of all proportion to the allegations made and whoever made the daft decision to proceed should be hung out to dry!!.
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]