RAf to Fill Airlift Gap with old BAe-146s??
Always amusing watching people who've never flown in one of the little things before when the flaps are retracted with that Stuka howling noise!
No problems if the APU dies - it's got 4 others hanging under the wings.
Talking to some guys from Mesaba airlines, who took 20+ brand-new RJs in the 90s, the APU performance was lamentable.
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As for the crap that grows in the wings Rigga, a continued supply of AVTUR F-34 over the usual should deal with the problem + the improved water drain mod (so all those deep pockets get drained!)
While its preformance ain't going to impress the speed freaks, it will do a job that is desperate to be filled..
Lots sitting at Southend as well.. Mostly 200's and 85s mind..
While its preformance ain't going to impress the speed freaks, it will do a job that is desperate to be filled..
Lots sitting at Southend as well.. Mostly 200's and 85s mind..
You'll have to forgive me, 4 whats?
I must admit to a fond spot for the 146. Before the wooden-headed, wooden-footed idiots at KLM sold off buzz to Mikey-the-Pikey, I had quite a few happy trips in their little yellow jets:
to Germany when the new leave rules came in. Saturday and Sunday not-required-for-duty, so off to Frankfurt on Friday then back first thing on Monday. Cost was peanuts.
I must admit to a fond spot for the 146. Before the wooden-headed, wooden-footed idiots at KLM sold off buzz to Mikey-the-Pikey, I had quite a few happy trips in their little yellow jets:
to Germany when the new leave rules came in. Saturday and Sunday not-required-for-duty, so off to Frankfurt on Friday then back first thing on Monday. Cost was peanuts.
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Someone mentioned the proposed (STA) mil variant (from 1989)..
Also:
BBC NEWS | UK | Pilots protest over 'noxious' air
Also:
BBC NEWS | UK | Pilots protest over 'noxious' air
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I did see a para team (Possibly the Falcons) jump from the BAE STA demonstrator at Leuchars BoB show in the early 90s, memory a bit fussy but I'm sure they jumped from the rear side doors. USAF chap I was speaking to called it a 'cute baby Starlifter'
Direct from the RAF website:
The BAE 146 is a quiet but rugged aircraft, with a high level of built-in redundancy. It can carry many of its own spares, allowing it to operate for long periods away from base, with little or no external support. The aircraft’s excellent short-field performance, and its ability to operate from high or unprepared airfields in missile threat areas, mean that the aircraft is extremely versatile
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I'm mystified why the MOD didn't start buying up used airframes a few years ago as they are so cheap, useful, and versatile.
Could it be that the Mystified of Defence (aka MoD) is so full of not cheap, not useful, and not versatile personnel?
Could it be that the Mystified of Defence (aka MoD) is so full of not cheap, not useful, and not versatile personnel?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
I'm mystified why the MOD didn't start buying up used airframes a few years ago as they are so cheap, useful, and versatile.
Which is why all the "cheap useful" things (aka Andovers are previously mentioned) were disposed of years ago....
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As one of the team who was demonstrating the 146STA at Farnborough in 199?, yes it's a great little a/c and a landrover will go on, but it's not a case of simply driving it up the ramp like the C130; the cargo door was on the side of the fuselage and certainly a land rover needed a couple of shuffles to get it in (couldn't be palletised to load, can't remember if it was short or long wheelie). I seem to recall the Falcons jumped out of it at Farnborough as well; I remember Malcolm P the loadie wearing his despatcher's harness getting things prepped, and the guys were definitely using the rear doors. There's no way it could be mentioned in the same breath as a C130, especially not a C17!
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There are 7 more in Calgary, and the one sold by HM was the one that "Jug Ears" bent, I do believe??
A good strong airframe that needs good maintenance on the engines.
How do I know, I probably tought some of you to fly them, and the RJ.
Speedbird 48
A good strong airframe that needs good maintenance on the engines.
How do I know, I probably tought some of you to fly them, and the RJ.
Speedbird 48
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It will be interesting to see if a $2 million aircraft will become $20 million aircraft in a proposal like this.
If they're going to do it they need to cap the per aircraft cost with the contractors.
By the way the real cost of a GOOD 146 is around $4 million. The $1 to $2 million cheapies will usually have a couple (or all) almost run out engines and usually short time remaining on the landing gear , cost to overhaul the gear is close to $1 million based on a quote a client got a few months ago. Engines are running between $150 to $250k second hand depending on cycles remaining and about $600 to $800k for an overhaul.
The population of 146's in Indonesia has gone from 2 to 8 in the last 2 years with more on the way. It's one of the few jet aircraft that can cope with the short runways here.
If they're going to do it they need to cap the per aircraft cost with the contractors.
By the way the real cost of a GOOD 146 is around $4 million. The $1 to $2 million cheapies will usually have a couple (or all) almost run out engines and usually short time remaining on the landing gear , cost to overhaul the gear is close to $1 million based on a quote a client got a few months ago. Engines are running between $150 to $250k second hand depending on cycles remaining and about $600 to $800k for an overhaul.
The population of 146's in Indonesia has gone from 2 to 8 in the last 2 years with more on the way. It's one of the few jet aircraft that can cope with the short runways here.
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I always thought the 146 was a good candidate for an STC based re-engine program , put 2 big CFM turbofans in place of the ALF-502s or even some old JT8D-15s which can be had very cheap now with all the old 737-200s being parked
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My bro-in-law flys them here in Oz for Jet Systems freighters.
He seems to have a love/hate relationship with them, often preferring my sister's company to driving a 146 from ADE to MEL and back.
"Bring Another Engine", "Four oil leaks connected by an electrical fault" and so on.
He seems to have a love/hate relationship with them, often preferring my sister's company to driving a 146 from ADE to MEL and back.
"Bring Another Engine", "Four oil leaks connected by an electrical fault" and so on.
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Maintenance costs are prohibitive.
Damn thing flies so slowly that the hour based checks repeat too quickly on the calendar.
Spares from BAe's MACRO programme are astronomical.
You also have to factor in the cost of conversion to military use, including adding a cargo door, floor etc and the timescale for intro to service extends and the costs go haywire.
Next great idea please.
Damn thing flies so slowly that the hour based checks repeat too quickly on the calendar.
Spares from BAe's MACRO programme are astronomical.
You also have to factor in the cost of conversion to military use, including adding a cargo door, floor etc and the timescale for intro to service extends and the costs go haywire.
Next great idea please.
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The 146/RJ is an interesting aircraft but I think it would have greater value in a role similar to Nimrod R1 rather than as a freighter. It's always been a source of bewilderment as to why the RAF didn't take some off the shelf Airbus freighters off the Filton line when they would have filled a gap easily and given some respite before FSTA got established.
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Sorry Prof' Student,
I guess I let the side down, but, the deed had been done, and she had departed, so I needed to settle down before sleep!!
Nothing like a 146 to make you sleep better.
On the serious side the 146 in its larger version would be a good people mover, and the smaller ones would do good on rough strips as cargo haulers once they had a side door fitted. All of that would free up the Alberts for what they are really needed for.
Speedbird 48.
I guess I let the side down, but, the deed had been done, and she had departed, so I needed to settle down before sleep!!
Nothing like a 146 to make you sleep better.
On the serious side the 146 in its larger version would be a good people mover, and the smaller ones would do good on rough strips as cargo haulers once they had a side door fitted. All of that would free up the Alberts for what they are really needed for.
Speedbird 48.
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Hi, Just this Once,
I was always led to believe that HM could not be seen in a repaired machine so it went?? I guess I am not as smart as I thought??
I have a 3ft square picture of '701 on my office wall that confuses the heck out of the colonialists here in the West.
As you are probably at Northolt with 32 squadron, I was there with the CAS Valletta's on Met' Comm' which sort of dates me a bit??
Speedbird 42
I was always led to believe that HM could not be seen in a repaired machine so it went?? I guess I am not as smart as I thought??
I have a 3ft square picture of '701 on my office wall that confuses the heck out of the colonialists here in the West.
As you are probably at Northolt with 32 squadron, I was there with the CAS Valletta's on Met' Comm' which sort of dates me a bit??
Speedbird 42
Seem to remember from some work I did recently that the Avro RJ is quite a thirsty beast, and goes through fuel with ease.
Maybe not a great problem for the mil, especially when compared with the VC10.
Maybe not a great problem for the mil, especially when compared with the VC10.