RAf to Fill Airlift Gap with old BAe-146s??
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
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I can't really see this idea being of much use; maybe we should go search for a few more Tristars in the Desert.
There must be plenty of ex Delta examples ripe for a Marshalls' Cargo Door conversion and a bit of AAR plumbing whilst we wait for the A330s to eventually arrive.
There must be plenty of ex Delta examples ripe for a Marshalls' Cargo Door conversion and a bit of AAR plumbing whilst we wait for the A330s to eventually arrive.
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During SSII we had a visit on the desert strip by a red and white 146. Made some good photos for the crew. Shame they had to change two of the wheels. They did qualify for the phoenix salute and hopefully got some good pictures of the daylight 'moon'
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Al R
Yes I too have spent a lot of time trying to sleep in the Novotel at Victoria Dock.
Are they the really quiet ones that pass over every 10mins?
The locals at Brize will really love them, because they are not at all sensitive to noise are they.
Yes I too have spent a lot of time trying to sleep in the Novotel at Victoria Dock.
Are they the really quiet ones that pass over every 10mins?
The locals at Brize will really love them, because they are not at all sensitive to noise are they.
BEagle - organophosphate issue … pah: New engine oil seals available, this problem also requires some decent line engineering / maintenance on the air cond which the RAF should be able to provide.
IIRC, “a high pitched whistle in the front cabin somewhere over Row 1” comes from a missing / damaged door stay cover or door hinge cover – again just some basic line maintenance required.
Stone-guard kit already available, as are low pressure tyres.
Fuel – some aircraft have ‘pannier’ extended range tanks. IFR was mocked up on the STA, but I suspect that any mod and full scale testing would be expensive.
Para-dropping from the rear doors was successful and those mods should be feasible in a short time scale.
IR defensive suite fitted and tested.
146’s are Cat 2, RJ’s Cat 3 capable. TACAN already tested / fitted. Steep approach, short take off (33 flap T/O mod available), and it can out-turn a hawk.
Find the right airframes; then they should meet the MOD’s requirements – available, cheap, rugged, and stay the course if you look after them.
How old is the oldest in service today?
IIRC, “a high pitched whistle in the front cabin somewhere over Row 1” comes from a missing / damaged door stay cover or door hinge cover – again just some basic line maintenance required.
Stone-guard kit already available, as are low pressure tyres.
Fuel – some aircraft have ‘pannier’ extended range tanks. IFR was mocked up on the STA, but I suspect that any mod and full scale testing would be expensive.
Para-dropping from the rear doors was successful and those mods should be feasible in a short time scale.
IR defensive suite fitted and tested.
146’s are Cat 2, RJ’s Cat 3 capable. TACAN already tested / fitted. Steep approach, short take off (33 flap T/O mod available), and it can out-turn a hawk.
Find the right airframes; then they should meet the MOD’s requirements – available, cheap, rugged, and stay the course if you look after them.
How old is the oldest in service today?
Nice little in-theatre runaround but as far as load lugging is concerned............ 
IIRC, “a high pitched whistle in the front cabin somewhere over Row 1” comes from a missing / damaged door stay cover or door hinge cover – again just some basic line maintenance required.
and it can out-turn a Hawk.
There are loads of them left in an airworthy condition because they didnt do a lot of sudden stops from the air. They are/were a really trustworthy little jet once the engine issues were sorted out.
Just a small issue when working in hot climes - it's very keen on growing "Clad" in the wings!
I'd heard that most were on their way to Africa if no homes were found.
Just a small issue when working in hot climes - it's very keen on growing "Clad" in the wings!
I'd heard that most were on their way to Africa if no homes were found.
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Why not just buy these and ALOT more cheap nearly new C-17's sat in the dessert??? I think the French just have.
Embraer’s Multinational KC-390 Tactical Air Transport Program
Embraer’s Multinational KC-390 Tactical Air Transport Program
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I understand that 146 STA was demonstrated, but there was also the model of a rear-ramp version of 146-300. Was this ever more than a BAe bright idea? Presumably a major engineering task, so BAES obviously the people for it.... After all, what could possibly go wrong?
S41
S41
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The ramped version was apparently 'to be developed in conjunction with Lockheed', who then had second/better thoughts. I recall the model they had at Farnborough showed a CVRT going in the back, and remember wondering if the vehilce was a smaller scale than the aircraft model!!
I did see a para team (Possibly the Falcons) jump from the BAE STA demonstrator at Leuchars BoB show in the early 90s, memory a bit fussy but I'm sure they jumped from the rear side doors. USAF chap I was speaking to called it a 'cute baby Starlifter'.
Isn't this where someone says we should never have sold the Andovers?
I did see a para team (Possibly the Falcons) jump from the BAE STA demonstrator at Leuchars BoB show in the early 90s, memory a bit fussy but I'm sure they jumped from the rear side doors. USAF chap I was speaking to called it a 'cute baby Starlifter'.
Isn't this where someone says we should never have sold the Andovers?
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POST #1..........387 were sold, making it the most successful British commercial aircraft...........
What about the Vickers Viscount, of which 445 were made, ?????????
What about the Vickers Viscount, of which 445 were made, ?????????
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How old is the oldest in service today?
CM
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Well having taught Maintenance engineers and aircrew on BAE146 and the RJ . . . tech AND performance.
. . . they don't need to stick either of these aircraft in any airfield without ground support as the APUs were notable for their lack of reliability.
Talking to some guys from Mesaba airlines, who took 20+ brand-new RJs in the 90s, the APU performance was lamentable.
The aircrafts' saving grace is that with 4 engines, a 3 engined take off is feasible to get it back for rectification.
They are also painfully slow. Mesaba were planning to cruise theirs at FL290+, at 0.7M - which would make them popular as pig**** in European airspace, RVSM or not.
Good luck.
. . . they don't need to stick either of these aircraft in any airfield without ground support as the APUs were notable for their lack of reliability.
Talking to some guys from Mesaba airlines, who took 20+ brand-new RJs in the 90s, the APU performance was lamentable.
The aircrafts' saving grace is that with 4 engines, a 3 engined take off is feasible to get it back for rectification.
They are also painfully slow. Mesaba were planning to cruise theirs at FL290+, at 0.7M - which would make them popular as pig**** in European airspace, RVSM or not.
Good luck.
In this context, it's about price and immediate availability, surely?
At DSEI BAE (Asset Management) were talking about providing 146s in pax configuration for £2m, or freighters for £5m.
So, with no waiting list (how long would you wait to get a -130J or a C-17 if you ordered one right now?) you could get 25 pax configured aircraft, or 10 freighters, for less than the price of a single -130J.
Now as a stop-gap, pending the delivery of A400M, that sounds like a sensible use of money (especially as you can probably sell them on for fire-fighting conversions afterwards) even if you'd never choose them as a definitive solution.
They're so cheap that you could almost use them like a modern Anson, giving a pair to every Station Flight.......
And aren't they pretty relevant for ongoing ops? Wasn't it one of the Arab states who used one specifically for taking hunting parties out into semi-prepared desert strips? Aren't they a bit of a modern Andover, potentially?
At DSEI BAE (Asset Management) were talking about providing 146s in pax configuration for £2m, or freighters for £5m.
So, with no waiting list (how long would you wait to get a -130J or a C-17 if you ordered one right now?) you could get 25 pax configured aircraft, or 10 freighters, for less than the price of a single -130J.
Now as a stop-gap, pending the delivery of A400M, that sounds like a sensible use of money (especially as you can probably sell them on for fire-fighting conversions afterwards) even if you'd never choose them as a definitive solution.
They're so cheap that you could almost use them like a modern Anson, giving a pair to every Station Flight.......
And aren't they pretty relevant for ongoing ops? Wasn't it one of the Arab states who used one specifically for taking hunting parties out into semi-prepared desert strips? Aren't they a bit of a modern Andover, potentially?
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They seem to cope well after a rather hard landing, although i'm not sure what the damage was after this but the gear took the impact pretty well....
YouTube - Hard landing near crash Part 1/2 - London City Airport - IS THE PILOT A HERO OR IDIOT ?
YouTube - Hard landing near crash Part 1/2 - London City Airport - IS THE PILOT A HERO OR IDIOT ?
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They seem to cope well after a rather hard landing, although i'm not sure what the damage was after this but the gear took the impact pretty well....
YouTube - Hard landing near crash Part 1/2 - London City Airport - IS THE PILOT A HERO OR IDIOT ?
YouTube - Hard landing near crash Part 1/2 - London City Airport - IS THE PILOT A HERO OR IDIOT ?
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From an SLC point of view I've had a little experience in/out/around Jockistan and found them very good. Undercarriage appears to be built from bits of the Forth railway bridge and watch out if the driver stands on the brakes - it doesn't half stop quick!
What about the Wave that used to flog up and down the Gulf a few years ago - ATR, wasn't it?
What about the Wave that used to flog up and down the Gulf a few years ago - ATR, wasn't it?