Sarko selling Rafales to the Brazillians

[Finnpog]

Saw this story
Sarkozy seeks fighter jet contract on Brazil visit | France 24]Sarkozy seeks fighter jet contract on Brazil visit | France 24

on the English language version of the "France 24" telly channel in the early hours - and just looked for and found the internet linky.

It could be that the Rafale is going into the Americas.

[BEagle]

The Dassault Rafale is one of the contenders for Brazil's FX-2 defence project - a decision is expected soon.

Other contenders are the Saab Gripen NG and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

[recceguy]

Others contenders were the F18 and the Gripen.

Sorry for all you, guys ....

Aaahh, that's good from time to time.....

[CirrusF]

The deal is already signed - formal announcement will follow at an expedient time. Brazil will also buy French subs, and France will buy about a dozen KC-390 to replace decrepit Transall fleet. It will be interesting to see how it affects A330 and A400M programs. Technology transfer (allegedly both ways) was the key to the deal, but I suspect there will be substantial Airbus know-how in the KC-390...

[Finnpog]

Considering the UK has collaborated for both the Tornado and the Typhoon I still think it amazing that France can still 'go it alone' and make a commercial success of the Mirage (or should that be Mirages), and hopefully now the Rafale.

When the market place has the F/A 18, the F 16, the Grippen and (ex MoD) Typhoons it is tough out there - and I bet the Tech Transfer was an important point

((Memories of the NoForn source code for Dave?))

[CirrusF]

Considering the UK has collaborated for both the Tornado and the Typhoon I still think it amazing that France can still 'go it alone' and make a commercial success of the Mirage (or should that be Mirages), and hopefully now the Rafale

Collaboration was only a minor handicap to the Tornado program, as during the coldwar there were profound common objectives.

But Dassault has benefited from French independence as they have succeeded in producing a multi-role aircraft to their own vision, without the handicap of having to divide construction between partners for political reasons as was the case for Typhoon - for example, Alenia make the left wing of each Typhoon, and EADS make the right wing. Can that really be an efficient process? Typhoon would/should have been cancelled in 1995, but for the political complexity of getting 3-4 interested nations to agree. Going it alone does have its advantages....

[GreenKnight121]

Originally Posted by Finnpog

and I bet the Tech Transfer was an important point

THE important point, apparently.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Brazil and France in jets talks

Ahead of Mr Sarkozy's visit, Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signalled that France's Rafale jet, built by Dassault, was favourite. The Rafale had an "exceptional comparative advantage" because of France's guarantee to share all military technology with Brazil as part of the deal, he told the AFP news agency.
Talks with France over the deal were at a "very advanced stage", he told other media outlets.

And with France dedicated to help Brazil build their first SSN, there is a significant amount of Franco-Brazilian defense industrialco-operation.
Senate Approves Loan for French Nuclear-Powered Submarine and New Helicopters


As Brazil wants at least 1 and possibly 2 new carriers to replace Sao Paulo (ex-Foch), I would expect a joint Franco-Brazilian version of PA2 or an enlarged conventional CdG for both nations.


On the Key publishing aviation forum (naval aviation sub-section), a resident of Brazil posted:

Originally Posted by Noite Escura

Rumors around here talk about an offer from the French of a CDG type with conventional propulsion. Not unlikely as they have shown interest in getting another carrier themselves.

Which is another reason Rafale is favored for Brazil's new fighter program.

Their A-4 Skyhawks (currently scheduled to receive the same avionics upgrade as Brazil's F-5s... with Grifo Radar and Derby missiles) will staff Sao Paulo until the new carrier commissions.

[Flyingblind]

If the Brazilians take up all the options on their shopping list thats a fair amount of force projection, CVN's, SSN's and Gen 4.5 FJ's. why?

Someone found oil offshore?

[GreenKnight121]

No...they just want a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and are in competition with India & Japan for that.

Brazil, like India, is trying to stretch beyond their current "regional power" role... that is the issue, and SSNs and carriers are an integral part of that for both nations.

SSNs (and carriers) represent the ability to operate effectively beyond their own areas, and to provide major parts of multi-national coalition forces... which further enhance that perception of "more than a regional power".



Brazil is one of the main contributors to the UN regular budget, ranking 12th. Brazil maintains the world's 18th largest armed force.

Brazil has been elected nine times to the Security Council, most recently in 2004-2005.

Brazil is the 5th largest nation in the world in land area. It is also the world's tenth largest economy*, 2 slots higher than India.



Currently, India maintains the world's third largest armed force. India is the largest contributor of troops to United Nations Peacekeeping missions, but is not in the top 15 in monetary contributions.

India has been elected to the council six times in total, although the last of those was more than a decade ago, in 1991-92.



*currency-neutral GDP 2008... the World Monetary Fund & the CIA World Factbook both rank Brazil #10 and India #12, while the World Bank ranks Brazil #8 and India #12.

[Flyingblind]

Thanks GreenKnight121 interesting stuff.

Might even pause the sabre rattling from Mr Chavez!