USAF Introduce Buzz-Bomb to Afghanistan
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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USAF Introduce Buzz-Bomb to Afghanistan
Or rather buzz - and not bomb; or buzz and then bomb. 
What was they said about never overflying the target a second time? It'll work until, or if, the, reputed, SA-14s, come out
Air Force may buzz before bombing in Afghanistan
By SUSANNE M. SCHAFER (AP) – 20 hours ago
SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. — A new military approach in Afghanistan may mean buzzing rather than bombing the enemy, according to the general taking over the air war there.
It's known as irregular warfare, designed to protect local people and then enlist their help defeating Taliban insurgents, Air Force Lt. Gen. Gilmary Hostage said Thursday.
"The first thing we do is fly over head, and the bad guys know airpower is in place and oftentimes that's enough. That ends the fight, they vamoose," said Hostage, who will direct the air battle over Iraq and Afghanistan. "The A-10 has a very distinct sound. The cannon on an A-10 is horrifically capable and our adversaries know it. When they hear the sound of an A-10, they scatter."
Hostage says the Air Force can easily drop bombs with pinpoint accuracy. But in some cases, it may be better to fly over enemy forces with noisy warplanes to get them to disperse first, then try more force if that doesn't work. Hostage said he supports the new U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who is shifting the philosophy toward irregular warfare.
"The challenge with irregular warfare is to empower and enable the people to the point where they don't allow the adversary to hide in amongst them," Hostage said. "It really is a long-term effort."
Hostage said McChrystal has told his forces, "If you are in a situation where there's a civilian at risk, he'd rather have us back away than pressing to engage the enemy and run the risk of damaging or hurting somebody."
The general said the irregular warfare philosophy may sound strange to some, but it gives military commanders more flexibility in fighting a war.
"In a circumstance where I'm only able to blow things up, I'm pretty limited in what I can do," Hostage said. "If I use graduated measures, then there are many things I can do to affect the situation."
Hostage, 54, took the job of overseeing Air Forces for the U.S. Central Command last week. He was heading Thursday from Shaw Air Force Base in central South Carolina to his new post at al-Udeid Air Base in the Persian Gulf state of Qatar, the headquarters of all U.S. air operations in the Middle East.
He is returning to familiar territory, having served as the commander of U.S. forces stationed at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia in 2001 and 2002. Most recently, he was the No. 2 in charge of U.S. Air Forces in the Pacific.
What was they said about never overflying the target a second time? It'll work until, or if, the, reputed, SA-14s, come out
Air Force may buzz before bombing in Afghanistan
By SUSANNE M. SCHAFER (AP) – 20 hours ago
SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. — A new military approach in Afghanistan may mean buzzing rather than bombing the enemy, according to the general taking over the air war there.
It's known as irregular warfare, designed to protect local people and then enlist their help defeating Taliban insurgents, Air Force Lt. Gen. Gilmary Hostage said Thursday.
"The first thing we do is fly over head, and the bad guys know airpower is in place and oftentimes that's enough. That ends the fight, they vamoose," said Hostage, who will direct the air battle over Iraq and Afghanistan. "The A-10 has a very distinct sound. The cannon on an A-10 is horrifically capable and our adversaries know it. When they hear the sound of an A-10, they scatter."
Hostage says the Air Force can easily drop bombs with pinpoint accuracy. But in some cases, it may be better to fly over enemy forces with noisy warplanes to get them to disperse first, then try more force if that doesn't work. Hostage said he supports the new U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who is shifting the philosophy toward irregular warfare.
"The challenge with irregular warfare is to empower and enable the people to the point where they don't allow the adversary to hide in amongst them," Hostage said. "It really is a long-term effort."
Hostage said McChrystal has told his forces, "If you are in a situation where there's a civilian at risk, he'd rather have us back away than pressing to engage the enemy and run the risk of damaging or hurting somebody."
The general said the irregular warfare philosophy may sound strange to some, but it gives military commanders more flexibility in fighting a war.
"In a circumstance where I'm only able to blow things up, I'm pretty limited in what I can do," Hostage said. "If I use graduated measures, then there are many things I can do to affect the situation."
Hostage, 54, took the job of overseeing Air Forces for the U.S. Central Command last week. He was heading Thursday from Shaw Air Force Base in central South Carolina to his new post at al-Udeid Air Base in the Persian Gulf state of Qatar, the headquarters of all U.S. air operations in the Middle East.
He is returning to familiar territory, having served as the commander of U.S. forces stationed at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia in 2001 and 2002. Most recently, he was the No. 2 in charge of U.S. Air Forces in the Pacific.
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'Graduated approach' has been the British way since I was out there in 2004. Start with the noise footprint then escalate the response - it's interesting to see the US adopting this approach. I still feel angry though, it's all too late for me, I guess I'm getting old - like this is some f*&^%$#g revelation to the Americans. (Long week - sorry)
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Smart! Real smart!
How long before the Afghanis, who are nobody's fools, see the opportunity to get a serious point-blank shot or two in with MANPADS?
Well, think about it. If the opposition were taking the p!ss out of you like this where would your thoughts go? (And please don't point out to me, as if I were a dummy too, that they "don't have any". They will. This will make sure they do)
This is ASKING for grief.
How long before the Afghanis, who are nobody's fools, see the opportunity to get a serious point-blank shot or two in with MANPADS?
Well, think about it. If the opposition were taking the p!ss out of you like this where would your thoughts go? (And please don't point out to me, as if I were a dummy too, that they "don't have any". They will. This will make sure they do)
This is ASKING for grief.
Smart! Real smart!
As Op20 said, UK and American FJ have been using this tactic for 5 years now on HERRICK. It's nothing new, just a USAF General pointing out that they don't just shoot on sight (probably as a result of the recent press coverage of civilian casualties from ISAF airstrikes.) Nothing new, but don't let that stop you armchair generals from being outraged.............
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The way I had it explained to me was that serviceable MANPADs out there are currently fairly rare. They are a status symbol to own, but are mostly 1 shot only. Hence, if you fire it you are then without your status symbol, plus if you miss you become a bit of a laughing stock. This all leads to anyone who owns one to be happy with just owning it. Bragging rights preserved etc.
Also it's easier and cheaper to have a bash at a helo with an RPG.
Nice to hear that the Yanks are catching up with how UK FJ have been doing businees since the start. If it stops civi casualties and de-risks blue on blue I'm all for it.
Also it's easier and cheaper to have a bash at a helo with an RPG.
Nice to hear that the Yanks are catching up with how UK FJ have been doing businees since the start. If it stops civi casualties and de-risks blue on blue I'm all for it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Look here:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...op-update.html
You will see that "Show of Force" was discussed only last week. You will see the same second pass comment was refuted here too.
The point about SAM was covered in Apache in 2006 but well made here.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...op-update.html
You will see that "Show of Force" was discussed only last week. You will see the same second pass comment was refuted here too.
The point about SAM was covered in Apache in 2006 but well made here.
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A Fool's Errand
The foreign powers in Afghanistan are there only with the tacit consent of the Russians and the PRC and, to a lesser extent, the Iranians
If they want us gone, we’d be gone in less than a month. Nothing major would do it either – Russia ceases all direct and indirect logistical support and the PRC puts the carrot and stick to the Pakies to do the same who would just love to just that anyway. Failing that, how do you say Igla in Chinese, Persian, and Urdu anyway?
If we think that we have the balls that the Russians had thirty years ago we are truly deluded.
At any rate one can reasonably conclude that our presence there serves the purposes of Russia and the PRC – the question being what purpose is THAT!?
If they want us gone, we’d be gone in less than a month. Nothing major would do it either – Russia ceases all direct and indirect logistical support and the PRC puts the carrot and stick to the Pakies to do the same who would just love to just that anyway. Failing that, how do you say Igla in Chinese, Persian, and Urdu anyway?
If we think that we have the balls that the Russians had thirty years ago we are truly deluded.
At any rate one can reasonably conclude that our presence there serves the purposes of Russia and the PRC – the question being what purpose is THAT!?
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Stan - The Man
Trying to drag the thread back before the Mods are tempted to dump it for one offensive and racist insert, Orac's source is part of a number of attempts by the media to get a hold of one man and his intentions. Esquire summed it up: Who is Stanley McChrystal?
Steeped in Special Ops, Lt Gen McCrystal has not been on the media radar. Appointed by the new administration, Stan took charge in June of U.S. and Coalition Forces in Afghanistan. His staff appear to be conducting a radical review which should make recommendations to NATO and Congress by early September on how to fight the war and how many troops will be needed to reverse the Taliban's momentum.
Have a look at him:
He has said very little but his tactics have already changed. You may find complaints from some of the US military that, while CAS is available, the ROE for weapon release is a lot more difficult if there is any possibility of collateral damage. I suggest that he is someone to watch.
Oh, and I used to know 'Igla' as Gimlet (SA-16). It is a needle so it should be easy to translate.
Steeped in Special Ops, Lt Gen McCrystal has not been on the media radar. Appointed by the new administration, Stan took charge in June of U.S. and Coalition Forces in Afghanistan. His staff appear to be conducting a radical review which should make recommendations to NATO and Congress by early September on how to fight the war and how many troops will be needed to reverse the Taliban's momentum.
Have a look at him:
He has said very little but his tactics have already changed. You may find complaints from some of the US military that, while CAS is available, the ROE for weapon release is a lot more difficult if there is any possibility of collateral damage. I suggest that he is someone to watch.
Oh, and I used to know 'Igla' as Gimlet (SA-16). It is a needle so it should be easy to translate.
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Low show of farce! The one aircraft airshow!!
As one who has served on the ground for 6 months in Afghanistan last year I did not witness one low show of force that achieved its aim of putting off the Taliban. The Talibs realised that the fast air air took at least 5 mins to get back into position and so used that time to their advantage. Also, the fast air air can be heard when loitering overhead and that never put the Taliban off before the fight so why should it after a low show of force? The low show of force tactic was shelved during my tour, rather using the asset to positively identify targets and then a decision was made on how to best to prosecute the target.
h
h
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@ L_J_R
Let me explain it to you from the top. Ever ask yourself why the Russian’s (actively) and (by inaction) the PRC have been so accommodating to the West in its occupation of Afganistan? Huh? No?
If the damn thing were so “geostrategically” important why aren’t they chasing us out of their own back garden like the three letter boys did to the Reds of an earlier era. In other words the MANPADs, ATGMs, etc. are notable by their very absence.
So, at best, we are doing their fighting and dying for them and at worst we are doing their fighting and dying for them while bleeding ourselves white pinned down in a dusty hellhole of no strategic relevance in the modern world.
What do I know about the precious little Afghans? Not a damn thing other than they have zero desire to be Greek, Persian, Arab, Mongol, Indian, Russian, or British. Or, for that matter, socialists or post-modern PC consumerist good little democrats (a difference without much of a distinction this last) so the will to resist is not lacking, just the means – for now. Lucky us, eh?
Me Chinese? Nah, I just like the takeaway. You? Your “forest for the trees” way of thinking is what led all of us into the mess we have found ourselves in since at least 1956 if not 1921 - with a little help from alien elements such as the esteemed Dr. Z.B. of course...
If the damn thing were so “geostrategically” important why aren’t they chasing us out of their own back garden like the three letter boys did to the Reds of an earlier era. In other words the MANPADs, ATGMs, etc. are notable by their very absence.
So, at best, we are doing their fighting and dying for them and at worst we are doing their fighting and dying for them while bleeding ourselves white pinned down in a dusty hellhole of no strategic relevance in the modern world.
What do I know about the precious little Afghans? Not a damn thing other than they have zero desire to be Greek, Persian, Arab, Mongol, Indian, Russian, or British. Or, for that matter, socialists or post-modern PC consumerist good little democrats (a difference without much of a distinction this last) so the will to resist is not lacking, just the means – for now. Lucky us, eh?
Me Chinese? Nah, I just like the takeaway. You? Your “forest for the trees” way of thinking is what led all of us into the mess we have found ourselves in since at least 1956 if not 1921 - with a little help from alien elements such as the esteemed Dr. Z.B. of course...
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JHL. I suppose that you refer to Dr Zbigniew Brzezinski who, as a former National Security Adviser, visited Pakistan regularly and may have been involved in the provision of weapons to the 'Afghan Freedom Fighters' during the Soviet occupation of AFG. What has that to do today with this:
I suggest that military/political speculation about the extent of the threat and who might be providing what weapons to whom is definitely out of order. You are touching on subject matter that is better covered in plum coloured updates by professionals.
What insight you might have is effectively masked by invective and spittle. So be a good lad and take note of some Soviet slang: уберитесь прочь.
forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World.
What insight you might have is effectively masked by invective and spittle. So be a good lad and take note of some Soviet slang: уберитесь прочь.
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If the protected planners want to do "Unconventional" then dress all frontline as Ragheads, give everyone AKs and RPGs, but a must, is to tell the Cousins from across the pond thats the plan!!
PeterR-B
Vfr
PeterR-B
Vfr
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
How about chemical warfare?
Instead of trying to flatten the buildings on top of Terry and killing stray civilians too, how about spraying the dye they use to stain bank notes and bank robbers?
Anyone running round covered in wode would be fair game. Of course Terry might then spray everyone in wode to confuse.
So switch to smart water. Colourless, odourless, but chemically identifiable. Pick up Mr Innocent, find he had been wetted with smart water, identify the location - gotcha.
Instead of trying to flatten the buildings on top of Terry and killing stray civilians too, how about spraying the dye they use to stain bank notes and bank robbers?
Anyone running round covered in wode would be fair game. Of course Terry might then spray everyone in wode to confuse.
So switch to smart water. Colourless, odourless, but chemically identifiable. Pick up Mr Innocent, find he had been wetted with smart water, identify the location - gotcha.
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Good idea PN.
If it was dayglo they would show up at night without the use of NGVs, in fact, their mudhuts would glow like Blackpool front on Illuminations night.
If you drop some nasty but non fatal virus, like a Delhi Belly Bomb, that would slow the feckers down too.
'Course if you want to real bar steward, lob pork scratchings at them
If it was dayglo they would show up at night without the use of NGVs, in fact, their mudhuts would glow like Blackpool front on Illuminations night.
If you drop some nasty but non fatal virus, like a Delhi Belly Bomb, that would slow the feckers down too.
'Course if you want to real bar steward, lob pork scratchings at them
