Should Civil Airports be used for returns from Afghanistan
I've seen many civilian charter flights at my local civilian aerodrome bringing troops back from operational areas at the end of their tour over the last few years.
I'd say that the practice has been ongoing for some time!
I'd say that the practice has been ongoing for some time!
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Brize..... not so bad
A lot of anti Brize opinion but from the point of view of charter aircraft operating crew Brize is a far better place to operate from that any UK civil airport.
Fuel is available immediately on request, next to no ATC delays & passengers are moved to the terminal very quickly (not like LGW if you are parked on a remote stand!)
From a CRM angle the crew are not exposed to the bunch of half witted, officious, petty minded numptys that have been given the excuse to intimidate and harass crews in the name of "security".
I would think that the transit of passengers at Brize should save about an hour over the time from aircraft to leaving the terminal at one of the bigger UK airports. so I think that this should be factored in when selecting an airport, after all the most important thing after a spell in a hot and sandy place is to get home as quickly as possible.
Fuel is available immediately on request, next to no ATC delays & passengers are moved to the terminal very quickly (not like LGW if you are parked on a remote stand!)
From a CRM angle the crew are not exposed to the bunch of half witted, officious, petty minded numptys that have been given the excuse to intimidate and harass crews in the name of "security".
I would think that the transit of passengers at Brize should save about an hour over the time from aircraft to leaving the terminal at one of the bigger UK airports. so I think that this should be factored in when selecting an airport, after all the most important thing after a spell in a hot and sandy place is to get home as quickly as possible.
I would think that the transit of passengers at Brize should save about an hour over the time from aircraft to leaving the terminal.........
.....after all the most important thing after a spell in a hot and sandy place is to get home as quickly as possible.
.....after all the most important thing after a spell in a hot and sandy place is to get home as quickly as possible.
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The other thing to remember here is that not all airports can handle widebody jets..!!
Even Waddo couldnt years ago...
Some bright spark in Ops accepted a Tristar for the 5 Sqn guys coming home...
Sadly Waddo didnt have the steps nor the other associated kit to assist with the offload...
Suffice to say said individual had a red face when the aircraft was rejected...!!
Also, the length of the flight and what the aircraft is further tasked with can also dictate what airfield is used..
Bear in mind crew day is or was 14hrs or 5 sectors...
As for troops coming home by most expeditious, whether they are able to walk or whether they have been repatriated makes no odds.
If coffins fly CivAir they are afforded no honours and travel as freight, sad fact but true...
During my career, i assisted in moving a fair few, from infant size coffins to adult size. Never an easy task, especially when you know the individual. However, all coffins are treated with due respect.
PS:
Thanks admin for the re-instatement...
Even Waddo couldnt years ago...
Some bright spark in Ops accepted a Tristar for the 5 Sqn guys coming home...
Sadly Waddo didnt have the steps nor the other associated kit to assist with the offload...
Suffice to say said individual had a red face when the aircraft was rejected...!!
Also, the length of the flight and what the aircraft is further tasked with can also dictate what airfield is used..
Bear in mind crew day is or was 14hrs or 5 sectors...
As for troops coming home by most expeditious, whether they are able to walk or whether they have been repatriated makes no odds.
If coffins fly CivAir they are afforded no honours and travel as freight, sad fact but true...
During my career, i assisted in moving a fair few, from infant size coffins to adult size. Never an easy task, especially when you know the individual. However, all coffins are treated with due respect.
PS:
Thanks admin for the re-instatement...
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I work at Heathrow and have seen the odd serviceman a few times in T1. No idea on their destination but next time I see one I'll go and shake his hand and give my thanks for the top job they are all doing.
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I believe that on average the same 2-3 Tristars serve the airbridge over a week or so, as a result of deep servicing, long term u/s etc. They are turned as soon as they land, either to serve as a spare or to go on the next flight, therefore any delay in getting them back to home base is likely to be very detrimental to the next guys going out.
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quote<Whilst the troops may not be there in droves, there are always a handful around Terminal 5 in uniform, no doubt making their way home after being dropped at Brize. Whilst they don't get the whooping and hollering one associates with our brethren from across the pond, there is certainly no animosity. A more considered, personal reflection of the job they do perhaps - much more in keeping with the British way...> quote
OK, I take it back. There was me listening to the experiences of over 60 current serving UK mil (RAF and Army) as opposed to an airline pilot. I must have missed the quietly considered, personal reflections of Joe Public and mistaken it (until very, very recently) for apathetic disinterest before them turning back to Jade and the BB household.
OK, I take it back. There was me listening to the experiences of over 60 current serving UK mil (RAF and Army) as opposed to an airline pilot. I must have missed the quietly considered, personal reflections of Joe Public and mistaken it (until very, very recently) for apathetic disinterest before them turning back to Jade and the BB household.
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First post......... Thank you, all the Brits who have joined us. We are cousins. Nothing against your traditions. But after Viet Nam we in America decided, never again. Our warriers are treated like gold. They choose to go into the breach. They deserve honor.
As do your troops. Thank you for going into the fray yourself. We have your back as you have ours. (Proven twice now).
YouTube - Welcome Home Troops/DFW Airport
I live close to a point of entry for these soldiers (BWI). This is the norm for all that enter from combat. Your soldiers should recieve the same. Again......we learned this some 30 years ago. Give your soldiers their due.
Bob
As do your troops. Thank you for going into the fray yourself. We have your back as you have ours. (Proven twice now).
YouTube - Welcome Home Troops/DFW Airport
I live close to a point of entry for these soldiers (BWI). This is the norm for all that enter from combat. Your soldiers should recieve the same. Again......we learned this some 30 years ago. Give your soldiers their due.
Bob
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LL, how long have you been out? The norm for crew duty was 16 hours when I left.
However,
ShyTorque, I don't know if I'd agree with you there.
Yes, returning personnel should be able to be landed at their nearest airport, but landing fees, handling fees etc are prohibitive for military A/C (may be different for charter, naturally), as are noise restrictions for VC10s. Also, military A/C are in short supply, whereas coaches are not. Do we fly an expensive C17/Tristar for an extra 2 hours, entailing another gear cycle, another landing, another AF/BF etc, or do we land at BZN (without any ATC or parking delays) and use coaches, trains or other MT resources.
Those "in boxes" as you so respectfully put it, deserve to transit through military airfields where they are accorded the appropriate honour and respect, and where their families can receive them without unnecessary stress. Do you think a civvy airport would shut down operations for a repatriation ceremony, or should we let the coffin be offloaded by baggage handlers like ordinary freight and then be driven somewhere else?
As for our US cousins, yes they do accord their service personnel much more respect than we in the UK do, and I think that they have the right idea, however, as can be noted in BIGBOB11's post, they too are flown to a number of central "entry point" locations, and then disburse from there. As the USA is somewhat bigger than UK, they use civvy air travel more frequently. We only have BZN or LYE, which are both quite central anyway. It is definately quicker to drive to somewhere like Manchester from BZN than it is to drive to LHR, wait around for 2 hours then fly up.
However,
ShyTorque, I don't know if I'd agree with you there.
Yes, returning personnel should be able to be landed at their nearest airport, but landing fees, handling fees etc are prohibitive for military A/C (may be different for charter, naturally), as are noise restrictions for VC10s. Also, military A/C are in short supply, whereas coaches are not. Do we fly an expensive C17/Tristar for an extra 2 hours, entailing another gear cycle, another landing, another AF/BF etc, or do we land at BZN (without any ATC or parking delays) and use coaches, trains or other MT resources.
Those "in boxes" as you so respectfully put it, deserve to transit through military airfields where they are accorded the appropriate honour and respect, and where their families can receive them without unnecessary stress. Do you think a civvy airport would shut down operations for a repatriation ceremony, or should we let the coffin be offloaded by baggage handlers like ordinary freight and then be driven somewhere else?
As for our US cousins, yes they do accord their service personnel much more respect than we in the UK do, and I think that they have the right idea, however, as can be noted in BIGBOB11's post, they too are flown to a number of central "entry point" locations, and then disburse from there. As the USA is somewhat bigger than UK, they use civvy air travel more frequently. We only have BZN or LYE, which are both quite central anyway. It is definately quicker to drive to somewhere like Manchester from BZN than it is to drive to LHR, wait around for 2 hours then fly up.
