15 dead in 10 days !
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15 dead in 10 days !
15 dead in 10 days, which is give or take 10% of the total casualties over the entire Afghanistan campaign so far.
Is it a case of the taliban getting wiser, refusing to come head to head with superior first world technology and opting for a guerilla grind ?
Does this indicate that Helmand will become a South Armagh scenario with Helo's being the main mode of transport.
Where are the helo's ?(other thread)
Whats the prognosis from you guys closer to the action ?
Is it a case of the taliban getting wiser, refusing to come head to head with superior first world technology and opting for a guerilla grind ?
Does this indicate that Helmand will become a South Armagh scenario with Helo's being the main mode of transport.
Where are the helo's ?(other thread)
Whats the prognosis from you guys closer to the action ?
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It won't change any time soon..
For as long as our boys are ferried to the front in Bacofoil bangers the losses will mount. The effectiveness and efficiency of the MODPE in recent years has been lamentable. (Wokka, Herc, Apache et al). Why is no-one ever held accountable when brand-new but unusable equipment languishes ... often for years? The whole thing stinks and won't change any time soon. Whatever the outcome, history will record that our boys conducted themselves with distinction. Good luck to them all. bm 
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Interesting to hear various ministers spouting on about how much has been spent recenty on new vehicals. This is probably the least amount they could get away with!! If Gordon Brown had provided the cash initially to fund the proper level of troops to do the job, then we would have been well into the reconstrusion phase by now. By proper i mean enough to take and hold the land.The Taliban would have been pushed out of the area before they could adapt tactics and get back at us. Interesting to hear the NI troop levels, up to 15000 troops for an area 3- 4 times(ish) smaller that Helmand!! How on earth did the Goverment ever think the small Brit force that went into Helmand in 2006 could hold such a vast area with so few troops. The fact of the mater is the now Prime minister buy scrimping on the initall push has ended up paying through the nose, in cash and importantly lives!!
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I saw a vehicle designed expressly for these conditions, including IED's ( Ranger ? ) - but no doubt it costs more than a Landrover...
As for helicopters, I simply cannot understand why we don't have a lot more in general, not just military - it would certainly perk up Westlands, even if under foreign ownership it's still a lot of British jobs.
I'm always annoyed to say the least when I see hospitals relying on charity for emergency helo's...
Maybe an appeal should go out, Dunkirk style, for all the berks who fly to race meetings to donate their aircraft & pilots - I live fairly near Goodwood, and there's normally a civilian helo' passing whenever one looks up; meanwhile the parish magazine is wingeing about night flights by Chinooks, disregarding they might be doing it for a good reason !
As for helicopters, I simply cannot understand why we don't have a lot more in general, not just military - it would certainly perk up Westlands, even if under foreign ownership it's still a lot of British jobs.
I'm always annoyed to say the least when I see hospitals relying on charity for emergency helo's...
Maybe an appeal should go out, Dunkirk style, for all the berks who fly to race meetings to donate their aircraft & pilots - I live fairly near Goodwood, and there's normally a civilian helo' passing whenever one looks up; meanwhile the parish magazine is wingeing about night flights by Chinooks, disregarding they might be doing it for a good reason !
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Collbar,
In considering troop levels in NI, don´t forget that they were supported by a large portion of the population.
Think more about the soviet troop levels in Afghanistan.....
In considering troop levels in NI, don´t forget that they were supported by a large portion of the population.
Think more about the soviet troop levels in Afghanistan.....
We hear about those who have fallen - may they rest in peace - but how many wounded are there who must face the future with crippling injuries?
I am led to believe that last year the number of wounded amounted to about 1000 per month at one time.
I am led to believe that last year the number of wounded amounted to about 1000 per month at one time.
Rest in Peace to those who have fallen from whatever cause on operations, condolences to the family, friends and colleagues, may you have the strength for go forward in the future whilst mourning for your loss. For those injured that you may get better soon and recover the best you can and my undying contempt for the worthless politicians who put you in the position you where in, without adequate reason or equipment, may they forever live with the nightmares that the aforementioned will suffer every day of their lives.
Again RiP and pray there will be no more but at present that seems very unlikely.
This should not descend in to an interservice rivalry, let all service chiefs go forward and demand what they need not what they are prepared to accept from the politicians.
Air Pig.
Again RiP and pray there will be no more but at present that seems very unlikely.
This should not descend in to an interservice rivalry, let all service chiefs go forward and demand what they need not what they are prepared to accept from the politicians.
Air Pig.
Last edited by air pig; 11th Jul 2009 at 16:47.
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I was thinking the same thing re. injured personnel, once again it seems down to charity - once beyond Selly Oak - to help people who've given so much.
I think we've just suffered a lot of wounded, as well as dead; it's easy for me to sit on my comfy chair and say ' something must be done ' but what is the real answer ?
I for one would be willing to put my limited resources to help ( for example my sailing club offers boats & training including moi for the disabled, with some grant funding towards the boats & stairlift ) but that's not enough, and really ought to be down to the government to repay their debt - no matter which political flavour.
I think we've just suffered a lot of wounded, as well as dead; it's easy for me to sit on my comfy chair and say ' something must be done ' but what is the real answer ?
I for one would be willing to put my limited resources to help ( for example my sailing club offers boats & training including moi for the disabled, with some grant funding towards the boats & stairlift ) but that's not enough, and really ought to be down to the government to repay their debt - no matter which political flavour.
I suspect NO politician ever knows what war is like, unless they have been there or had family members there. This lot of so called peoples representatives have NO idea of danger or service to their Country, just what they can get out of it for themselves. They do not remember JFK's words, 'Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your Country' maybe they should reflect on his words and learn a lesson, a country is only as strong as those who defend it.
Whatever you may feel about Her Majesty, her family have been there done that and got a 'T' shirt. At least they can look the bereaved and wounded in the face and say 'There but for the grace of God go I'
Air Pig.
Whatever you may feel about Her Majesty, her family have been there done that and got a 'T' shirt. At least they can look the bereaved and wounded in the face and say 'There but for the grace of God go I'
Air Pig.
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Now how about their donating a few million for a hospice and after-care then ?
They can afford it, and it's desperately needed, so sod whether it sets a precedent & lets the government off the hook, it's required right now, the details can wait.
On the same tack, a short 'tour' in Afghanistan wouldn't do any harm ( ?! ) to a multi-political party bunch, as long as they didn't insist on mega-protection, which I suspect they would...
They can afford it, and it's desperately needed, so sod whether it sets a precedent & lets the government off the hook, it's required right now, the details can wait.
On the same tack, a short 'tour' in Afghanistan wouldn't do any harm ( ?! ) to a multi-political party bunch, as long as they didn't insist on mega-protection, which I suspect they would...
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There are a couple of major offensive ops under way at the moment - as mentioned in the news as well. When we go out looking for trouble, there will always be more bloodshed.
Helicopters are not going to stop the deaths either - although a few more would help things. We still need troops on the ground and that isn't going to go away regardless of the technology. It is also technology and medical advances that ensure more survive what would have killed them 20 years ago - giving us the higher numbers of wounded returning.
Helicopters are not going to stop the deaths either - although a few more would help things. We still need troops on the ground and that isn't going to go away regardless of the technology. It is also technology and medical advances that ensure more survive what would have killed them 20 years ago - giving us the higher numbers of wounded returning.
Why are Obama's travels more of a newsworthy event on the BBCs Web pages.!!!! ???
Because when you look at the BBC News from a World perspective then that is the bigger story. Go to the UK news and the lead story is Brown's argument that it is worthwhile us being there.
Only takes one click
Not that it's any consolation, but I imagine the Afghan death toll is much higher. Far too many will die before it ends and we all know no one will really win.
We will eventually agree a truce and either walk away, or more likely, look the other way.
We will eventually agree a truce and either walk away, or more likely, look the other way.
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Crazy, just crazy. How long will it be before the public turn on the government and tell them that enough is enough. How many more have to pay the ultimate sacrifice before Gordon Brown and his monkeys decide that what we are doing is not enough and their so called strategy, is not working.
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Labour clashes with army as Afghan death toll mounts - TimesOnline, 12 Jul 09
That strikes me as being a bit late! 
David Crausby, a Labour member of the Commons defence committee, added: “It is not appropriate to play party politics at this time. Dannatt should just get on with the job. After the conflict if there are lessons to be learnt we should do so in a considered manner.”
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Where are the personnel needed to hold the ground that has been fought for and lives lost?
Not to mention the wounded.
It is my contention that we must withdraw. Our boys are not adequately equipped. Gordon Brown has not convinced me at all.
The ramblings of (parrot) Ainsworth nauseate me.
Not to mention the wounded.
It is my contention that we must withdraw. Our boys are not adequately equipped. Gordon Brown has not convinced me at all.
The ramblings of (parrot) Ainsworth nauseate me.
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Freedom does not come free - the cost of democracy for the world is victory in a vicious war against a dangerous foe. Poor tactics, insufficient and incorrect equipment coupled to a lack of direction makes this a conflict with no end in sight. The hideous truth is that there are UK children not yet born who will die and be maimed in Afghanistan as young soldiers in our army. The least we owe them is the provision of sufficient and appropriate equipment to do the job.
Those who say we should leave are failing to see that 90% of the West's heroin supply comes from Afghanistan, not to mention the virtual guarantee of a return to a terrorist training camp on vast scale. We need to recognise that this is going to run and run - we simply have to win here. There is, alas, no shortage of Muslim young men desperate to depart to a better life beyond the grave - their future guaranteed through taking infidels with them in the Jihad of the day. Not all Muslims hold that view, but enough do to guarantee a generation of future conflict. My heart goes out to the grieving families of our fallen and maimed servicemen. And yet, not to fight would only destory our whole future.
Those who say we should leave are failing to see that 90% of the West's heroin supply comes from Afghanistan, not to mention the virtual guarantee of a return to a terrorist training camp on vast scale. We need to recognise that this is going to run and run - we simply have to win here. There is, alas, no shortage of Muslim young men desperate to depart to a better life beyond the grave - their future guaranteed through taking infidels with them in the Jihad of the day. Not all Muslims hold that view, but enough do to guarantee a generation of future conflict. My heart goes out to the grieving families of our fallen and maimed servicemen. And yet, not to fight would only destory our whole future.
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Those who say we should leave are failing to see that 90% of the West's heroin supply comes from Afghanistan
Anyway, why don’t we just burn the poppy fields; that would be one problem sorted...but I think we know the answer to that.
I am not saying we should leave, but we need to define the real enemy, stop appeasing those that pretend not to be our enemy, and sort the problem out properly, with the right resources in place to do the job.