ISAF Miniatures
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ISAF Miniatures
Recently a number of SNCOs on my unit have had the ISAF Afghanistan miniature attached to their bundle on their No5s. Apparently the paras and a number of other army units have done the same. I know the wearing of the full size medal is prohibited but are there any regs governing the wearing of the miniature?
Last edited by OOpsIdiditagain; 30th Jun 2009 at 08:14. Reason: sp
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
OOps, yes, you 'can't'.
Interestingly, as a retired military it would be 'a gross discourtesy to the Queen' if you wore a medal to which you are entitled but which She has not approved.
Interestingly, as a retired military it would be 'a gross discourtesy to the Queen' if you wore a medal to which you are entitled but which She has not approved.
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Dress regs are available on the RAF Website here
Relevent para is in Chapter 8.
Relevent para is in Chapter 8.
0852. The regulations for wearing foreign insignia and non-military medals with evening uniform are the same as for wear with day uniform
(see paras 0818 to 0824 also 0843 and 0844).
(see paras 0818 to 0824 also 0843 and 0844).
0854. Occasions for Wear. Miniature badges or orders, decorations and medals are normally reserved for evening functions and are worn with No 5, 5A, 5B and 8 SD uniforms (Mess Dresses). Foreign awards are subject to the same rules for full size versions at Para 0818.
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as a retired military it would be 'a gross discourtesy to the Queen'
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Rather like the PJM you mean? IIRC Her Majesty approved that for wear in Australia, but, strangely, not here. Anyway, it was awarded to me and I'm bloody well going to wear it, so there! 
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Rather like the PJM you mean? IIRC Her Majesty approved that for wear in Australia, but, strangely, not here. Anyway, it was awarded to me and I'm bloody well going to wear it, so there!
Gentleman Aviator
Once I left the RAF I was no longer bound by my oath and I couldn't give a toss what the Queen approves of.
But the exam question here concerns wear by serving members in uniform. And they are then obliged to "give a toss" as it is delicately put.
Of course you can wear what you like on civilian clothes, but when wearing uniform - and retired members can legally wear uniforms on a number of occasions - you can't. It's HM's uniform and her rules apply - you can always wear a DJ (tux) if you want to......
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Still digresing, I have noticed on cruise ship formal nights a sprinkling of people wearing minatures with their DJs. Interesting if there is any etiquette as to when to wear medals in a purely civilian environment. I would guess that it would be acceptable at the Captain's coctail party when the crew are wearing their medals.
I did see something buried in dress regs once that said that minatures had to be identical to your full size medals i.e. preventing you wearing all sorts of baubles and accoutrements on Mess kit. However, having had a quick look at the dress regs link (out of personal interest rather as I am in the same boat as Oops, not because I enjoy reading dress regs you understand!), I can't see anything along those lines, so maybe my memory is playing tricks.
However, I do remember my old rotary Sqn boss telling me to put my ISAF minature up as I had earned it the hard way and shouldn't be cow-towing to desk bound REMFs who probably didn't even have a passport let alone go on ops. Interestingly, I couldn't get him to put his signature to that.
For what it's worth, officially you would be wrong to put it up, but depending on your surroundings you might get away with it. At an operational unit where there are quite a few ISAF medal holders, the hierachy will probably turn a blind eye or even be participating themselves. At a unit where very few hold the ISAF gong, you might meet a bit of resistance. I have mates on the Tonka fleet who have so far been quite scornful of people wearing the ISAF minature; I wonder how long it will be before that changes??
However, I do remember my old rotary Sqn boss telling me to put my ISAF minature up as I had earned it the hard way and shouldn't be cow-towing to desk bound REMFs who probably didn't even have a passport let alone go on ops. Interestingly, I couldn't get him to put his signature to that.
For what it's worth, officially you would be wrong to put it up, but depending on your surroundings you might get away with it. At an operational unit where there are quite a few ISAF medal holders, the hierachy will probably turn a blind eye or even be participating themselves. At a unit where very few hold the ISAF gong, you might meet a bit of resistance. I have mates on the Tonka fleet who have so far been quite scornful of people wearing the ISAF minature; I wonder how long it will be before that changes??
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Like Biggles & Nuther A2 I also wear my PJM mounted with my other Medals. Interestingly when attending the 50th Merdeka anniversary parade in KL we were given permission to wear it for 2 weeks!!
CS
CS
At an operational unit where there are quite a few ISAF medal holders, the hierachy will probably turn a blind eye or even be participating themselves.
members of most operational units have plenty of medals and don't seem to worried about the tacky ISAF (what is that silver thread all about) medal.
I can't see why this debate keeps arising. The rules from the beginning were that it is not to be worn on uniform. They havent changed.
Having run a militaria shop which offered medal mounting for 10 years I gave up advising people what they could and couldn't wear in the way of medals - full size or miniature. Most people subscribed to the "I'm a civvy now, I'll wear what I like" school of thought. Carried to its extreme this produces the sort of sight that is becoming commoner and commoner on Remembrance Day, ie veterans festooned with every type of unofficial medal from the National Service Medal onwards. At around £35 a pop, some people must have spent hundreds on what after all are just vanity baubles. All that only applies to civilians of course - serving personnel have to follow current regs, which admittedly seem to be confusing some people.
Two points from earlier posts. First - Blacksheep, HM subsequently gave permission for the Russian Arctic Convoy medal to be worn after British medals - and in the last couple of years an emblem to be worn on the Atlantic Star ribbon has been awarded to convoy veterans.
Second - other than our contributors from over the pond, do we have to call a DJ a tux?
I have certainly worn my miniature (single!) on my DJ at mess functions and seen others do it - dont think there's a problem there.
Two points from earlier posts. First - Blacksheep, HM subsequently gave permission for the Russian Arctic Convoy medal to be worn after British medals - and in the last couple of years an emblem to be worn on the Atlantic Star ribbon has been awarded to convoy veterans.
Second - other than our contributors from over the pond, do we have to call a DJ a tux?
I have certainly worn my miniature (single!) on my DJ at mess functions and seen others do it - dont think there's a problem there.
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Once I left the RAF I was no longer bound by my oath
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
[QUOTE=Tankertrashnav;5031495]Russian Arctic Convoy medal to be worn after British medals - and in the last couple of years an emblem to be worn on the Atlantic Star ribbon has been awarded to convoy veterans./QUOTE]
Or widows (and NOK) thereof, I got one presented to my mother-in-law. I couldn't get one for my father as there was no record however from his tales I suspect that he may have been to Arkangel after the war as his ships were not in the list of Arctic convoy merships.
Or widows (and NOK) thereof, I got one presented to my mother-in-law. I couldn't get one for my father as there was no record however from his tales I suspect that he may have been to Arkangel after the war as his ships were not in the list of Arctic convoy merships.
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Spheroid
I'm impressed. It takes a special type of person to be able to use this thread to push a single-Service air/aviation agenda. Very well done 
You must qaulify for the award of the the most ancient order of the purple helmet for that one (though don't wear it with your uniform ).
Without getting into a spot of crab bashing (OK then I will) that is the exact reason why the RAF will never be able to fly the JSF from sea. You may of course leave the RAF but once you are a member then you never leave the Fleet Air Arm.
You must qaulify for the award of the the most ancient order of the purple helmet for that one (though don't wear it with your uniform ).
Afg Gongs
Suggestion:
I had my very own "ISAF medal presentation ceremony" at "LJ Towers" and gave my ISAF gong to my 7yr old daughter for "being brave and looking after Mummy" whilst I was away for a few months. Seeing as HM wouldn't let me wear it, I thought this the best thing to do with it
Suggestion over...
My real presentation of the ISAF Medal and AFG OSM wasn't that great anyway. The ISAF gong pitched up anonimously on my rucksack with a blank certificate to fill out myself and the OSM pitched up in the post on my new unit! Previously, my UNPROFOR came in the post about 4years after the qualification and also my FRY and QEII Jubilee pitched up in my Sqn Pigeonhole - only my GSM attracted any "pomp and ceremony".
We really know how to do the medal thing in this Country don't we?
LJ
I had my very own "ISAF medal presentation ceremony" at "LJ Towers" and gave my ISAF gong to my 7yr old daughter for "being brave and looking after Mummy" whilst I was away for a few months. Seeing as HM wouldn't let me wear it, I thought this the best thing to do with it
Suggestion over...
My real presentation of the ISAF Medal and AFG OSM wasn't that great anyway. The ISAF gong pitched up anonimously on my rucksack with a blank certificate to fill out myself and the OSM pitched up in the post on my new unit! Previously, my UNPROFOR came in the post about 4years after the qualification and also my FRY and QEII Jubilee pitched up in my Sqn Pigeonhole - only my GSM attracted any "pomp and ceremony".
We really know how to do the medal thing in this Country don't we?
LJ
We really know how to do the medal thing in this Country don't we?
LJ - glad to see it's not just me that had all manner of problems getting hold of medals. I had to physically collect my TELIC medal from P1 at a different station after the paperwork had been left on my unit P1's desk for 4 months after the P1 clerk was fired for incompetence. My HERRICK gong was issued within the required 30 days, however, it went to all my old units before finally catching up with me. As for the ISAF medal (for what it's worth) that was handed to me by an SAC, in a cracked box and a cheery comment that I could pick my commemorative certificate up next time I was heading out to AFG as long as I could get to KAF!!!
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So Melchy, was it "drie veeks in der cooler" when you laid him out for his... " I could pick my commemorative Zertificate up next time I was heading out to AFG as long as I could get to KAF" ...comment 
Tempting, but definitely not worth the "drie veeks in der cooler" for people with that sort of attitude. More a case of back to the crewroom and over a brew "Guess what fellas - you won't believe what P1 have just said now".
Sadly, few people were surprised.
Sadly, few people were surprised.
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Having been "out" for nearly a year now and a little bit curious tbh, what was the entitlement criteria for the ISAF, not allowed to wear it anyway, medal?
I can only assume that if you qualified for the OSM, you qualified for the ISAF! Is that correct, or am I missing something vital?
I can only assume that if you qualified for the OSM, you qualified for the ISAF! Is that correct, or am I missing something vital?