RAF to scrap Harriers
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RAF to scrap Harriers
Here we go again!!! why don't we scrap MPs and MEPs that would save billions!!
Harrier jets could be scrapped in RAF spending cuts | Mail Online
WDD
Harrier jets could be scrapped in RAF spending cuts | Mail Online
WDD
We had a similar (identical) thread a few months back and from what I was hearing at the time, I'm amazed that we haven't already announced a date for Harrier to go. Short-termism yes, but financial reality unfortunately.
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Is anybody familiar with this type of story. Being a "wrinkly", I remember the TSR2 and the Wilson, Healey, Jenkins era!! Save money by buying American!!!! F111, F4s et al!! What a success! Never mind, we may yet save the Harrier if sufficient "expenses" are returned!!!!
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I'm surprised that the Army hasn't offered up the public duties battalions, of which there are three; two Foot Guards and one line infantry battalion, currently the Fusiliers.
I'm not suggesting they don't do a good job, and it's a welcome opportunity for the lads serving in those battalions to get some personal/domestic stability, but it would make the point that there really is not much fat left in the Army right now.
I'm not suggesting they don't do a good job, and it's a welcome opportunity for the lads serving in those battalions to get some personal/domestic stability, but it would make the point that there really is not much fat left in the Army right now.
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I'm surprised that the Army hasn't offered up the public duties battalions,
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Everybody is looking at equipment, but start looking at culture too. The PD regts are a good example but why not taking a hard look at every 1* officer and upwards - how much cash would that save when we seem to have more admirals than ships and more air whatevers than squadrons.
Why do you need a Wg Cdr to run a sqn ( and the reds too with just 9 ac ? )
Why do you need a Gp Capt to run a stn ( army units seem to get by with a Lt Col running a barracks )
Will the new CAS offer up 4 or 5 red hawks as part of the cuts
?
Why do you need a Wg Cdr to run a sqn ( and the reds too with just 9 ac ? )
Why do you need a Gp Capt to run a stn ( army units seem to get by with a Lt Col running a barracks )
Will the new CAS offer up 4 or 5 red hawks as part of the cuts
?
Using Dannat's logic that we are fighting difficult counter insurgency war in Afghanistan and that it's the Infantry that need supporting, I'm assumimg that the Army will be offering to convert a few Cavalry Regts to an Infantry role and scrapping their tanks. No? Why not, CGS seems to be insisting that we need to fight the current war & as their is little utility for tanks at the moment (even though they proved useful in Iraq, not that long ago) it's surely time for the capability to go!!! We'll rebuiild the capability later, when we forcast a need for it. Yes, I know its nonsense but the same argument applies with ASW or AEW etc.
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the army has no high-profile extremely expensive procurement programs of controversial worth
When I joined the RAF in 1968, there was huge resentment over the Healey/Wislon savaging of P1154, HS681 and TSR2.
But we were just getting the Nimrod, F4, Harrier, Jaguar and Puma - plus Hawk, Jetstream, Bulldog and Gazelle were coming soon for Learning Command. And Buccaneer was replacing the B(I)8 Canberra.
No new AT though, apart from the Andover. But cuts for the Comet, Belfast and Brittania fleets. Even the Basset and Devon were on their way out - with the Pembroke only hanging on by the skin of its teeth due to its photo-recce role in RAFG.....
Ever since then, there has been nothing but cut after cut.
'Capability holiday' my ar$e. When will the Squirearchy stand up, be counted and resign en masse unless the brain dead politicians support their aspirations with susbtance.
Never, if it threatens the "Third star and K" aspirations of your 'Chief Executives', I guess....
But we were just getting the Nimrod, F4, Harrier, Jaguar and Puma - plus Hawk, Jetstream, Bulldog and Gazelle were coming soon for Learning Command. And Buccaneer was replacing the B(I)8 Canberra.
No new AT though, apart from the Andover. But cuts for the Comet, Belfast and Brittania fleets. Even the Basset and Devon were on their way out - with the Pembroke only hanging on by the skin of its teeth due to its photo-recce role in RAFG.....
Ever since then, there has been nothing but cut after cut.
'Capability holiday' my ar$e. When will the Squirearchy stand up, be counted and resign en masse unless the brain dead politicians support their aspirations with susbtance.
Never, if it threatens the "Third star and K" aspirations of your 'Chief Executives', I guess....
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Using Dannat's logic that we are fighting difficult counter insurgency war in Afghanistan and that it's the Infantry that need supporting, I'm assumimg that the Army will be offering to convert a few Cavalry Regts to an Infantry role and scrapping their tanks. No? Why not, CGS seems to be insisting that we need to fight the current war & as their is little utility for tanks at the moment (even though they proved useful in Iraq, not that long ago) it's surely time for the capability to go!!! We'll rebuiild the capability later, when we forcast a need for it. Yes, I know its nonsense but the same argument applies with ASW or AEW etc.
Swiss Des was livid when he found we had helicopters in Germany that were stuff all use for Herrick and Telic. There has been some argument that we should apply the principles of war - concentration of force, as determined by military requirements rather than economic expedient and political dictat. It was evidence that WW2 was a case in point.
There is not much fat to cut from what we have now but the scared (sic) cows and Torphy's (sic) plans may have to be sacrified. We may need to ignore long industry lead times and admit we will only look at the world policing role and aircraft carriers in 10-15 years time. Typhoon likewise would only be procured as an airframe replacement for GR9/GR4 rather than future proofing.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Which is a lovely thought, as over 33% of the MOD procurement budget currently goes on R&D.
However, over 40% of all government R&D is from the MOD budget, and is a major part of the funding the government gives to universities, Qinetiq, Bae, Rolls-Royce etc.
They are already squealling like a stuck pig over the UK considering pulling out of buying 24 A400ms, and that's after all the R&D has been spent. Who do you think has the most influence of the Cabinet, them or the Forces?
However, over 40% of all government R&D is from the MOD budget, and is a major part of the funding the government gives to universities, Qinetiq, Bae, Rolls-Royce etc.
They are already squealling like a stuck pig over the UK considering pulling out of buying 24 A400ms, and that's after all the R&D has been spent. Who do you think has the most influence of the Cabinet, them or the Forces?
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Perhaps ACM Stirrup should do something useful and make an appointment for a frank and open interview with Aunty Betty. Even that could generate monumental wider problems, outside the Services, though.
Clearly, CAS would save money by gashing his (to him) least valued asset. To retain it for the Carriers, of course, 1SL would need to find nearly the same level of funds to take on the task; while, at the same time, offering his own savings. Clearly, the Navy wouldn’t be able to pay two lots of Dane Geld.
If that qualifies as “inter-service slanging”, so be it.
Clearly, CAS would save money by gashing his (to him) least valued asset. To retain it for the Carriers, of course, 1SL would need to find nearly the same level of funds to take on the task; while, at the same time, offering his own savings. Clearly, the Navy wouldn’t be able to pay two lots of Dane Geld.
If that qualifies as “inter-service slanging”, so be it.
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I have read recently, phoenix squadron and it appears to me we are in a similar predicament. The witless expense thieves have empties out the piggy bank and in an effort to try and save a vote will spend any spare change that they can steal from another piggy bank in making enough votes that they don't lose their seat.
I am certainly not disputing the extreme overstretch and hard work but we do not know what is around the corner. Politicians talk (lie) about more money etc but the bottom line is you all are doing far more than ever and still getting smaller. Let us follow this argument along and scrap everything we do not need for the 'stan. YOU WILL NOT SEE THE MONEY FROM IT. Be realistic. And then, when the dust settles and you come back from the 'stan and another little crisis starts up and we have nothing at all to send .........
I am certainly not disputing the extreme overstretch and hard work but we do not know what is around the corner. Politicians talk (lie) about more money etc but the bottom line is you all are doing far more than ever and still getting smaller. Let us follow this argument along and scrap everything we do not need for the 'stan. YOU WILL NOT SEE THE MONEY FROM IT. Be realistic. And then, when the dust settles and you come back from the 'stan and another little crisis starts up and we have nothing at all to send .........
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It's a lovely day where I live, so I sat outside, watched the blue sky, listened to the birds and this thought came to me:
"mmmmm, that Pprune thread about the Harrier and cutbacks and all. I know, maybe the 3 new heads of service will collectively walk into the Marxist's office and collectively tell him to go ram it. The albino with the funny eyebrows will have to chop some nulabour bollocks elsewhere to balance the books. After 12 years of your ****e and the Tory ****e before that, our cupboards are bare."
And now its raining.
"mmmmm, that Pprune thread about the Harrier and cutbacks and all. I know, maybe the 3 new heads of service will collectively walk into the Marxist's office and collectively tell him to go ram it. The albino with the funny eyebrows will have to chop some nulabour bollocks elsewhere to balance the books. After 12 years of your ****e and the Tory ****e before that, our cupboards are bare."
And now its raining.
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Lines in the sand
We were saying that during the 90s when Slobodan and his mates were having a ball in the Balkans.
We were saying it in the 80s when we stopped flying every Feb/Mar becuase we had no fuel.
We were also saying it in the 70's when people were made redundant by lottery (well almost).
I think I'll crack a stubby and join C130bloke in the garden.
We were saying it in the 80s when we stopped flying every Feb/Mar becuase we had no fuel.
We were also saying it in the 70's when people were made redundant by lottery (well almost).
I think I'll crack a stubby and join C130bloke in the garden.
And in the 1970s we were planning cutbacks but needed the RN (and significant others!) in 1982 and for the Armilla patrol.
And in the 1990s we were planning on cutbacks but needed air power (and significant others) in the Balkans and Iraq (and lets not forget Sierra Leone etc) .
And in the 2000s we were planning cutbacks but needed air power and armour in Iraq, & infantry/ close air support/ helos etc in @Stan. (and lets not forget that N subs fired the first UK shots post Sept 11)
And in the 2010's we have cut back but are expected to regenerate & re-train people to operate against..........
......who knows
but the point is that no matter what cut backs we have planned, our armed forces have been in action at some point after.
And in the 1990s we were planning on cutbacks but needed air power (and significant others) in the Balkans and Iraq (and lets not forget Sierra Leone etc) .
And in the 2000s we were planning cutbacks but needed air power and armour in Iraq, & infantry/ close air support/ helos etc in @Stan. (and lets not forget that N subs fired the first UK shots post Sept 11)
And in the 2010's we have cut back but are expected to regenerate & re-train people to operate against..........
......who knows
but the point is that no matter what cut backs we have planned, our armed forces have been in action at some point after.
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Here we go again.
Something does have to give soon and UK armed forces will be left to sort the mess out. The continual cuts of the 70's and 80's lead to the Falklands war then to the splurge of spending as the Govt of the day was humiliated by a 3rd rate power rubbing British troops faces in the dirt. Unfortunatley the Civil service and Govt isn't an orginisation with a memory and they are going down the same path. Yes the Budget is screwed and cuts will have to be found maybe as a cost saving measure 32 Sqn should stop flying Govt ministers round the place or make the House of Commons pay comercial rates for its continued use.
Something does have to give soon and UK armed forces will be left to sort the mess out. The continual cuts of the 70's and 80's lead to the Falklands war then to the splurge of spending as the Govt of the day was humiliated by a 3rd rate power rubbing British troops faces in the dirt. Unfortunatley the Civil service and Govt isn't an orginisation with a memory and they are going down the same path. Yes the Budget is screwed and cuts will have to be found maybe as a cost saving measure 32 Sqn should stop flying Govt ministers round the place or make the House of Commons pay comercial rates for its continued use.
