New Hawk Problem?
Thread Starter
New Hawk Problem?
May have been covered already, however the engineers in the Storage
hangers at Strawbs have been told that the first 2 of the Hawk T2's that were delivered to Strawbs this week may have to be broken down and taken by low loader to Warton. Something to do with a problem with the main spar that means the airframes only have a 500 hour life. A bit embarrassing if it applies to all the new ones that have gone to other customers.
hangers at Strawbs have been told that the first 2 of the Hawk T2's that were delivered to Strawbs this week may have to be broken down and taken by low loader to Warton. Something to do with a problem with the main spar that means the airframes only have a 500 hour life. A bit embarrassing if it applies to all the new ones that have gone to other customers.
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Yawn. 
Old news. Hardly an issue as they're still under the warranty and haven’t even had the plastic seat covers removed. 
At most lets call in a small product recall. Its not like its going to set anything back with the way the introduction to service has been handled.
Old news. Hardly an issue as they're still under the warranty and haven’t even had the plastic seat covers removed. At most lets call in a small product recall. Its not like its going to set anything back with the way the introduction to service has been handled.
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Have just heard that it's not just the wings but that there are other faults that need rectifying as well, such as rudder pedals. The figure doing the rounds is GBP300,000 per frame to fix and that this problem also applies to export versions with the more powerful engine. As pointed out, the jets were only going into storage for 2 years anyway so it's not like there's any loss to the service.....
Yes, Him
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So, what is the problem with the wings?
As Brough have been building them for Donkey's Years, I'd have thought they'd be quite good at it. Its still all metal isn't it? Or are there any composite components?
As Brough have been building them for Donkey's Years, I'd have thought they'd be quite good at it. Its still all metal isn't it? Or are there any composite components?
Last edited by Gainesy; 16th Jun 2009 at 08:02.
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Surely Double Zero has a point here.
If the UK planes are just being put into storage (er, as a taxpayer, why??) then no problem, but if we're flogging these things to people are are going to be using them from the off, then we're going to be planes dropping out of the sky before too long.
If the UK planes are just being put into storage (er, as a taxpayer, why??) then no problem, but if we're flogging these things to people are are going to be using them from the off, then we're going to be planes dropping out of the sky before too long.
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Angels,
I think ' aeroplanes dropping out of the sky before too long ' is a bit melodramatic; more likely an embarassing and costly fix programme.
What has been changed on a proven design, and why, seem questions worth asking, especially if it damages the reputation of probably our best export aircraft ( which is why the production line was taken from Dunsfold, where the Hawk - including initial 100 & 200 series - was developed, to keep Warton going as they didn't have anything exportable of their own ).
Now it looks as if someone's tried to be clever and make ' improvements '... I wouldn't mind betting this is related to the apparently now permanent wingtip launcher rails, which seem a lot of weight & drag in the worst place to me, even if they do contribute some ' end plate ' effect.
DZ
I think ' aeroplanes dropping out of the sky before too long ' is a bit melodramatic; more likely an embarassing and costly fix programme.
What has been changed on a proven design, and why, seem questions worth asking, especially if it damages the reputation of probably our best export aircraft ( which is why the production line was taken from Dunsfold, where the Hawk - including initial 100 & 200 series - was developed, to keep Warton going as they didn't have anything exportable of their own ).
Now it looks as if someone's tried to be clever and make ' improvements '... I wouldn't mind betting this is related to the apparently now permanent wingtip launcher rails, which seem a lot of weight & drag in the worst place to me, even if they do contribute some ' end plate ' effect.
DZ
Last edited by Double Zero; 18th Jun 2009 at 06:31.
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Double zero - Thanks very much for the reply.
I was being facetious with my comment, it's obviously something I wouldn't want to happen!
What a depressing comment. It wasn't broke, so they tried to fix it, eh?
I was being facetious with my comment, it's obviously something I wouldn't want to happen!
Now it looks as if someone's tried to be clever and make ' improvements
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Angels,
I've since been informed on extremely good authority that weight on the wingtips actually relieves wing stress under high G, so what's up with the spar is even more of a mystery...
I've since been informed on extremely good authority that weight on the wingtips actually relieves wing stress under high G, so what's up with the spar is even more of a mystery...
It seems 't Bungling Baron Waste O' Space has bungled yet again, by 'eck!
Maybe 't lads at 't werrks oop nawrth in clog-and-whippet land thought they knew better than 't soft soothern jessies down Kingston way?
Maybe 't lads at 't werrks oop nawrth in clog-and-whippet land thought they knew better than 't soft soothern jessies down Kingston way?
DoubleZero, wingtip rails have been around on the hawk for quite a while as well, and afaik aren't the cause of the issue as none of the previous mk's have suffered (and as you mention, to the best of my knowledge and from personal experience wingtip rails are preferable to pylons!)
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So what has changed? A new process, a new widget , new or defective materials, new design or did Fred just screw up five(?) aircraft and quality control was asleep on the job? Is it just the RAF aircraft or others affected?
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Hmm, no answers yet.
As a total outsider, are we looking at an Apache-type situation here where we're going to have all sorts of kit locked away and unused while people argue about who's going to fix it, what went wrong etc??
And what's happening about the ones that have been flogged abroad?
This is very curious.
As a total outsider, are we looking at an Apache-type situation here where we're going to have all sorts of kit locked away and unused while people argue about who's going to fix it, what went wrong etc??
And what's happening about the ones that have been flogged abroad?
This is very curious.
New Hawk problems, I doubt it .
Could be just a few of duff strain gauges on the operational loads measurement circuits. The airframe and systems are well proven, hence the worldwide sales of a great little aircraft
Could be just a few of duff strain gauges on the operational loads measurement circuits. The airframe and systems are well proven, hence the worldwide sales of a great little aircraft
Story doing the rounds that the problem is caused by holes in the structure to carry the wiring for the new kit; also, rumours of CofG probs.
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Hawk spar problems ?
Not sure about the weight of kit & eventual C of G, but G-Hawk ZA101 was modified years ago into 100 series configuration ( nose, not wingtip rails ) and seemed fine.
I understand that particular aircraft has been since modified for ' stealth ' but a large question mark remains if the 100 series RAF & export models have a spar snag, maybe just a few aircraft built by whippet botherers ?
I understand that particular aircraft has been since modified for ' stealth ' but a large question mark remains if the 100 series RAF & export models have a spar snag, maybe just a few aircraft built by whippet botherers ?
