G-forces
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where the sun never shines
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-forces
Hey everyone, i was just watching jetstream, and was thinking, do the raf do a centrifuge test for fast jet pilots, and if so is it like most of the other forces tests, also any tips on how to increase your g-tolerance, short of going out and pulling g everyday.
many thanks.
many thanks.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
also any tips on how to increase your g-tolerance, short of going out and pulling g everyday.
An athletic build and the ability to run 5 miles in 20 minutes is better suited to less demanding aircraft.
many thanks.[/QUOTE]
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 31st May 2009 at 20:08.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
indifference to pn's answer - yes there is a centrifuge 'test' for FJ pilots. it's run by qinetiq in fboro with and without gpants, the 'pass' mark is 6g with trousers on but they'll take it up to 9 for s&g. it's done pre linton but is a bit of a non event. and yes. there is an anti g straining manouvre.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where the sun never shines
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so is G forces something you can train against on land, like working on abs or sumthin, or is it just repeated exposure. and does having a stocky build aid you in comparison to say a more athletic build.
and at farnborough is the nature of the trip just a training exercise against more g's and stuff, or is it a define go there you need to pass.
thanks.
and at farnborough is the nature of the trip just a training exercise against more g's and stuff, or is it a define go there you need to pass.
thanks.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,567
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes
on
31 Posts
I am reminded of a wind-up from long ago.
One of our multi rear crew was given a back seat ride in a 2 stick Belgian fast jet (Mirage?). Needless to say, he came back full of it.... Low Level Blah.... Speed Blah.... bounced two F4s blah and pulled over 7g.
Another collegue stepped in:
"But that is metric g - and so is not as much".
A second collegue recognising the wind-up joined in the converstaion:
"Its metric g and therefore only about 2/3rd of Imperial g I seem to recall".
"Thats right - its only 73.2% of Imperial g as I remember, so you only pulled about 4.5 g which is frankly not very good. If you look at the Jaguar it has a dual calibrated g-meter being Anglo French - you can check the actual g you pulled if you look in the cockpit."
Exit one deflated FJ passenger who came bursting in again 2 minutes later when he realised that g did not change and he weighed the same when he disembarked from the Calais-Dover ferry on the continental side.
One of our multi rear crew was given a back seat ride in a 2 stick Belgian fast jet (Mirage?). Needless to say, he came back full of it.... Low Level Blah.... Speed Blah.... bounced two F4s blah and pulled over 7g.
Another collegue stepped in:
"But that is metric g - and so is not as much".
A second collegue recognising the wind-up joined in the converstaion:
"Its metric g and therefore only about 2/3rd of Imperial g I seem to recall".
"Thats right - its only 73.2% of Imperial g as I remember, so you only pulled about 4.5 g which is frankly not very good. If you look at the Jaguar it has a dual calibrated g-meter being Anglo French - you can check the actual g you pulled if you look in the cockpit."
Exit one deflated FJ passenger who came bursting in again 2 minutes later when he realised that g did not change and he weighed the same when he disembarked from the Calais-Dover ferry on the continental side.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where the sun never shines
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol, er was jst looking at a page on the raf valley site;
"
If you were really aerobically fit like Steve Cram, it would be disastrous because your heart rate and blood pressures low. We train a bit like sprinters - weights and short runs and anaerobic exercise for short-term fitness."
so have a few burgers pump some iron, and run every so often?
"
If you were really aerobically fit like Steve Cram, it would be disastrous because your heart rate and blood pressures low. We train a bit like sprinters - weights and short runs and anaerobic exercise for short-term fitness."
so have a few burgers pump some iron, and run every so often?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read a US study many moons ago where they took 3 groups to test how g tolerance improved over time. One group did anaerobic training, one did aerobic training and the third did nothing. The anaerobic training group did the best with the couch potatoes coming second - aerobic fitness bad for g tolerance!
Basically high blood pressure is good and decent sized muscles to squeeze is good. Decent muscle mass also helps protect the body in an ejection.
G tolerance wasn't really an issue for the RAF until Typhoon came along.
Basically high blood pressure is good and decent sized muscles to squeeze is good. Decent muscle mass also helps protect the body in an ejection.
G tolerance wasn't really an issue for the RAF until Typhoon came along.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
You see I wasn't joking about your parents not withstanding Blobbyrat.
When starting the air-to-air combat phase with high g manoeuvring it was the norm to see the aircrew, instructors and all, going around with stiff necks. It was especially bad for the navs who might be craning their necks to look back and thus not in the best attitude to do anti-g straining.
When starting the air-to-air combat phase with high g manoeuvring it was the norm to see the aircrew, instructors and all, going around with stiff necks. It was especially bad for the navs who might be craning their necks to look back and thus not in the best attitude to do anti-g straining.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I would venture to suggest that very very few will actually fail to achieve the pass mark but they might decide that 6g is not something they want to do and withdraw.
Aviation medicine training also includes decompression and later pressure breathing. These are both really instruction where attendance is necessary but there is no intrinstic requirement to remain conscious for a given time with little oxygen. Similarly the disorientation trainer is to acquint you with disorientation and not to test your ability.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: South Central UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here we go again!
QinetiQ does not run the course at Farnborough, they provide the facility - the course is run by a RAF CAM Av Med Specialist who has considerable personal experience with the Hi +Gz environment and the push/pull effect come to that
.
It is not a pass/fail course, it is instructional with the aim of teaching folk the correct anti-G straining manoeuvre (AGSM) or how to use Pressure Breathing with G (PBG) effectively. Obviously, if someone has a big problem this may require additional training or clinical testing. Human physiology was not designed to operate under long-duration +Gz acceleration, a few folk will have a problem.
Some air forces actually use an individuals 'anti-G' performance as a pass/fail criteria. This is very silly since the various means used to reduce the blood pressure in the eyes/cranium are not really representative. Moreover, these tests are applied without any anti-G protection being provided and in the knowledge that 'failure' probably means good bye FJ pilot training. Result - highly stressed people and every possibility that future exceptional FJ pilots will not be selected on the basis of a flawed test.
It is well understood that +Gz tolerance sitting in a centrifuge Gondola will be less than when operating a real aircraft - for several reasons.
lm
QinetiQ does not run the course at Farnborough, they provide the facility - the course is run by a RAF CAM Av Med Specialist who has considerable personal experience with the Hi +Gz environment and the push/pull effect come to that
.It is not a pass/fail course, it is instructional with the aim of teaching folk the correct anti-G straining manoeuvre (AGSM) or how to use Pressure Breathing with G (PBG) effectively. Obviously, if someone has a big problem this may require additional training or clinical testing. Human physiology was not designed to operate under long-duration +Gz acceleration, a few folk will have a problem.
Some air forces actually use an individuals 'anti-G' performance as a pass/fail criteria. This is very silly since the various means used to reduce the blood pressure in the eyes/cranium are not really representative. Moreover, these tests are applied without any anti-G protection being provided and in the knowledge that 'failure' probably means good bye FJ pilot training. Result - highly stressed people and every possibility that future exceptional FJ pilots will not be selected on the basis of a flawed test.
It is well understood that +Gz tolerance sitting in a centrifuge Gondola will be less than when operating a real aircraft - for several reasons.
lm
Join Date: May 2004
Location: world
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is, of course, a surefire way of increasing your G tolerance but it's a teeny bit drastic. It worked extremely well, although I only know of one pilot who did it........ Douglas Bader!!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apologies, lm is quite correct - the poc at the centrifuge is a senior officer from cam, however all the administrative and operational staff and the buildings and equipment are qinetiq. and while it may not be a test in the strictest sense of the word, my logbook is stamped with 'bfjt pass'.