North Korea kicking off

[Load Toad]

I'm usually dead against a first strike type action - but N.Korea acts like a spoiled child - which was OK when it was just conventional in threat - but with nuclear warheads and a delivery system - whatever Dear Great Grandma Leader is trying - how long before 'we' have to remove the threat - it seems impossible to predict what type of destructive nonsense they will try yet - they don't care about their own people - much less anyone elses.

[aseanaero]

Does anyone really think China will agree to a pre-emptive strike by any country against North Korea ?

'Crazy North Korea' can only be dismantled in the long term from the inside or with a change in attitude from China

[bizdev]

Pre-emtive strike

I seem to recall that someone 'took out' a suspected nuclear reactor somewhere in the middle east recently - was it in Syria? - with the likely suspects being Israel and/or the US who were (metaphorically) walking around looking skyward and whistling - someone got away with it (twice I believe).

[ProM]

The Chinese attitude is changing. They aren't stupid and recognise that having a lunatic armed with nukes on your doorstep is less than ideal.

As for NK troop numbers, you have to take these with a pinch of salt. They include for example the troops desribed here
http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2009/2009...0526-13ee.html

by the NK news agency as "soldier builders", currently building a holiday resort.
Against that the ROK forces are well disciplined and armed (at least from what i saw of them).

However, Seoul is within artillery range of NK, and so could be expected to be devasted even in a conventional conflict. Thus in my view any conflict would be short, but cause a large number of casualties very quickly. The west (and Aus, UK & Japan would not go without US) would have to use very large scale air raids, but would be unable to protect Seoul IMHO.

[OFBSLF]

I'm usually dead against a first strike type action - but N.Korea acts like a spoiled child - which was OK when it was just conventional in threat - but with nuclear warheads and a delivery system - whatever Dear Great Grandma Leader is trying - how long before 'we' have to remove the threat - it seems impossible to predict what type of destructive nonsense they will try yet - they don't care about their own people - much less anyone elses.

It won't happen.

NK has thousands of artillery pieces hidden in tunnels in the mountains, within range of Seoul. Any strike on NK would result in NK shelling Seoul, killing tens of thousands of civilians.

It would take thousands of air strikes and many, many days to put the artillery out of action. In the meantime, Seoul would be devastated.

[glad rag]

NK has thousands of artillery pieces hidden in tunnels in the mountains, within range of Seoul. Any strike on NK would result in NK shelling Seoul, killing tens of thousands of civilians.

And just how many thousands of tactical nuclear weapons do you have at your disposal?

Why bother turning them into ploughs, just use them and finish the problem once and for all.

Seriously.

[spheroid]

NK has thousands of artillery pieces hidden in tunnels in the mountains,

Sounds like Gib....is that where we keep our stockpile.?

[OFBSLF]

And just how many thousands of tactical nuclear weapons do you have at your disposal?

Why bother turning them into ploughs, just use them and finish the problem once and for all.

Seriously.

Are you seriously suggesting using large numbers of nuclear warheads within artillery range of the Seoul metro area, which has a population of ~25M?

We've tried the old "we had to destroy the village so we could save it" thing back in Vietnam. It didn't work out so well then. Irradiating the South Korean capital would likely not ingratiate us to the South Korean people.

[hunterboy]

I may be getting the wrong end of stick here, but are some people really advocating using nuclear weapons in a preemptive strike against NK?
Makes one wonder who the real warmongers are bearing in mind I don't see many Iraqi or Afghan soldiers in the Uk or the US .

[OFBSLF]

hunterboy: if you are suggesting that I am one of those advocating the use of nuclear weapons, you are seriously misreading what I wrote. Any first-strike attack on North Korea, whether conventional or nuclear would result in terrible civilian casualties and would be a huge mistake.

[taxydual]

Don't worry chaps. God's own acres are preparing for action.

BBC radio announces nuclear tests in North Yorkshire - Telegraph

[Adam Nams]

MOD says VC10 in Japan

Initial tests inconclusive

On Friday, a U.S. official said initial tests to determine whether North Korea had fired a nuclear device were inconclusive.

The Vienna-based Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organisation said absolute proof awaited findings of radioactive particles and noble gases, expected next week at the earliest.

It seems that more proof is required than just the big bang registered around the world on the seismology equipment.

[Double Zero]

And the Mayor of wherever it was asking " What the **** was that ? " !

[Load Toad]

I'm certainly not suggesting a nuclear first strike.
What bothers me is that with the North being increasingly unstable and developing nuclear war heads and delivery systems it may become necessary to use military force to stop them developing such systems further.

[vernon99]

Is North Korea the problem? I doubt they want another war, and how well prepared to fight a modern war are they? They must have watched how quickly Iraq and it's modern air defences were defeated in GW1 & GW2. IMO the problem is that as they continue to develop and produce WMD they will give them to a terrorist organisation, get someone else to do the dirty work, this I think is the problem. For example the Olympics are a couple of years away at the moment, nothing to stop them smuggling a device in now, ahead of increased security. Now that would be a show stopper, but who do you blame? who do you retaliate against, N Korea would be stood saying it wasn't us, we have ballistic weapons, nothing to do with us?

[Double Zero]

There are systems in place to avoid that. As mentioned elsewhere, British forces keep things calm, but have a Plan B up their sleeve.

[BEagle]

If you have Google Earth, you can see some rather interesting shots of various sites the lunatic spaniel-scoffers would probably rather you didn't:

North Korean Economy Watch North Korea Uncovered - (Google Earth)

[glad rag]

If you have Google Earth, you can see some rather interesting shots of various sites the lunatic spaniel-scoffers would probably rather you didn't:

39072725N, 125483333E ??

[TEEEJ]

NK is certainly an interesting place to visit on Google Earth. Much of their Air Force is certainly from a different generation!

I wonder if they hold photo shoots and open days?! How long would you last if you turned up outside the base for a bit of photography in the circuit?!

Koksan Airbase



Some of the NK pilot defections.

Farmer (MiG-19/J-6) from a 1983 defection - Captain Lee Ung-Pyong.

Photos: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Photos: Shenyang J-6 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Interesting story of Lt. No Kum-Sok. MiG-15 defection during 1953.

Operation Moolah - The Plot to Buy a MIG

The last defection was in 1996. Captain Lee Chul-Su flew his Shenyang J-6 (MiG-19) to South Korea.

TJ

[0497]

I seem to recall that someone 'took out' a suspected nuclear reactor somewhere in the middle east recently - was it in Syria? - with the likely suspects being Israel and/or the US who were (metaphorically) walking around looking skyward and whistling - someone got away with it (twice I believe).

Israeli strike (they came in from the med) against Syria. Oddly, the North Koreans issued a protest.
Analysts: Israel Targeted Syrian Nuclear Reactor : NPR

But Seoul is <50km from the DMZ.