Indulgence flights anyone?
Yes, the Cousins seem very keen on this Rendition Class level of travelling. No natural light, spatial disorientation, abusive warders....
No doubt those people who finally made it to Guantanamo Bay thought they were in heaven. Briefly.
Even the dismal KC-767 Frankentanker proposal doesn't have windows - and I understand that it might even be the same for their version of the A330MRTT?
Why??
No doubt those people who finally made it to Guantanamo Bay thought they were in heaven. Briefly.
Even the dismal KC-767 Frankentanker proposal doesn't have windows - and I understand that it might even be the same for their version of the A330MRTT?
Why??
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No more Indulgence seats on any Comercial Airline, Seats are reserved for MOD not allocated as before. If seats are not taken by a certain cut off time they go back into the airline's pot. MOD pay top dollar for these seats. Cyprus do have a dedicated desk (a Civvy) who control all seats into and out of Cyprus, Same for the Falklands and ASI.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Actually the warders were very civilised, TWA or Panam moonlighting. Even before we took off they produced large poly sacks and threw cans of coke, packets of biscuits and some thin crisped potato sliced things at us.
Even gave us loads of coffee though.
Mind you the facilities were up to the usual standard. While using them we were able to monitor the IFF, radios and sundry other kit as the panels were off the walls.
Even gave us loads of coffee though.
Mind you the facilities were up to the usual standard. While using them we were able to monitor the IFF, radios and sundry other kit as the panels were off the walls.
But what really peeved me was that the miserable sod never even said thankyou.
No natural light, spatial disorientation, abusive warders....
I rode MAC (yeah, that long ago) to OZ a couple of times. One trip there was a Brit riding along, said he was heading down to see family. Aren't your lot allowed to ride AMC aircraft on a space available basis?
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Space "A" - Plus!
I agree entirely with Tankertrashnavs' comments regarding this country's treatment of retired servicemen and women. Apart from benefits like space "A" travel, US vets have their own "retiree" ID card which gives them access to all US military bases, home and abroad, enabling them to use all the base facilities ie. PX/BX, Commissary, Golf Courses, Bowling Alleys etc etc. I think they are also entitled to Medical and Dental treatment. Many US vets plan their retirement making sure they are near to a military base, for these very reasons, plus they can opt to live in places like S, California or Florida. How different to UK where the RAF is possibly the only "firm" in the world to take your watch off you when you retire!!!
Space A is theoreticly possible for members of UK armed forces. I have known people who have done it. What they really need to see are your 'leave orders', so have a copy of your leave pass as well as a NATO travel order. there is a priority system, as non US serving you will be lowest. This was the case about ten years ago and I gather it hasn't changed much. Can anyone verify it's still the case?
As a tanker captain I was ofeten asked when flying round the US if we had space A. I usually asked the question, but it was usually TFD. Only once could we do it.
As for indulging. Don't start me on that! Yes it's allowed - but it's controlled by the movers. So that's largely the end of it! I did a trip to Cyprus in a tanker once. Two seats were made available on the op order for indulgees for the GE and one of the groundcrew to bring their wives for a weekend in Cyprus. Just prior to departure, the GEs wife phoned to say there wasn't space after all. So we were surpirsed when a van arrived with the indulgance pax which turned out to be a mover and his wife who saw two seats on the way to Cyprus available and decided to snaffle them. Just before Cyprus, time for the tanker/tanker bracket - the other tanker couldn't trail his centre hose so we had to flip/flop and we continued to Bahrain. I left it to the GE to explain to the indulgees that we were now on the way to Bahrain where there was a curfew and that they had to stay in the Diplomat hotel at their own expense. I think he enjoyed it!
When I left the mob, I joined the RAFA as a lifetime member and got an RAF Retired ID card. The US forces recognise it just as the same as their veterans cards and I have used it for access to BXs, purchse discounted theme park tickets and get hotels and hire cars at special rates.
As a tanker captain I was ofeten asked when flying round the US if we had space A. I usually asked the question, but it was usually TFD. Only once could we do it.
As for indulging. Don't start me on that! Yes it's allowed - but it's controlled by the movers. So that's largely the end of it! I did a trip to Cyprus in a tanker once. Two seats were made available on the op order for indulgees for the GE and one of the groundcrew to bring their wives for a weekend in Cyprus. Just prior to departure, the GEs wife phoned to say there wasn't space after all. So we were surpirsed when a van arrived with the indulgance pax which turned out to be a mover and his wife who saw two seats on the way to Cyprus available and decided to snaffle them. Just before Cyprus, time for the tanker/tanker bracket - the other tanker couldn't trail his centre hose so we had to flip/flop and we continued to Bahrain. I left it to the GE to explain to the indulgees that we were now on the way to Bahrain where there was a curfew and that they had to stay in the Diplomat hotel at their own expense. I think he enjoyed it!
When I left the mob, I joined the RAFA as a lifetime member and got an RAF Retired ID card. The US forces recognise it just as the same as their veterans cards and I have used it for access to BXs, purchse discounted theme park tickets and get hotels and hire cars at special rates.
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Movers/MAPS
Continuing on almost the same theme, the US equivalent to RAF Movers are called (or were) called MAPs (Mobile Air Port). When a flight arrived at a MAC base the aircraft was met by a MAPs rep with a standard set of questions: Loadmasters name? How many seats are you offering? What's the status of the aeroplane (serviceable or not)? Flew into Scott AFB in a Herc in the '80s and just after shutdown but with the GTC (APU) still blasting away was approached by one of the said MAPs reps who duly shouted to me "what's the Loadmasters name?" I shouted back "Scott", he repeated the question "what's the Loadmasters name?" again I shouted back "Scott", with a look of complete consternation on his face and about ready to blow a gasket he shouted "I know where the fxxk we are Sir, what's the Loadmasters name?"
Incidentally thanks for the info on the RAFA and ID cards, planning a golfing trip Stateside in Sept and it would be a useful thing to have for the reasons you've given.
Incidentally thanks for the info on the RAFA and ID cards, planning a golfing trip Stateside in Sept and it would be a useful thing to have for the reasons you've given.
Last edited by scottpe; 9th May 2009 at 04:53. Reason: Add sentence
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SPACE-A Regulations
Current priorities for SPACE-A are as follows:
Category I - Emergency Leave Unfunded Travel
Emergency round-trip travel in connection with serious illness, death or impending death of a member of the immediate family of the following:
•U.S. citizen civilian employees of the Defense Department stationed overseas;
•Full-time, paid personnel of the American Red Cross serving with U.S. military overseas;
•Military family members whose sponsors are stationed within the continental United States and the emergency exists overseas;
•Family members of U.S. civilian employees of the DoD when both sponsor and dependents are stationed overseas at the same location;
•Military family members when accompanied by their sponsor may travel within the ConUS if the emergency exists in the ConUS.
Category II - Sponsors in an Environmental Morale Leave (EML) Status
•Sponsors on environmental and morale leave and accompanied family members. Military personnel also must be on ordinary leave;
•DoD Dependent School teachers and accompanied family members in EML status during school-year holiday, vacation periods or employer-approved training during recess periods.
Category III - Ordinary Leave, House Hunting Permissive TDY, Medal of Honor Holders, Foreign Military, and Others
•Service members in an ordinary or re-enlistment leave status and military patients on convalescent leave;
•Military personnel traveling on permissive temporary duty orders for house hunting;
•If permissive TDY is for permanent change of station house hunting, the member may travel in the ConUS and overseas, and be accompanied by one family member;
•Family members (with a valid identification card) of a service member when accompanied by their sponsor who is in an ordinary leave status;
•Foreign exchange service members on permanent duty with the DoD, when in a leave status.
Category IV - Unaccompanied Dependents on EML and DoDDS Teachers on EML During Summer
•Unaccompanied family members (18 years or older) traveling on EML orders. Family members under 18 must be accompanied by an adult family member who is traveling EML;
•DoDDS teachers or family members in an EML status year round.
Category V - Permissive TDY (Non-House Hunting), Students, Command Sponsored Dependents•Students whose sponsor is stationed in Alaska or Hawaii;
•Military personnel traveling on permissive TDY orders for other than house hunting;
•Command-sponsored dependents (18 years of age) of service members who are stationed overseas may travel unaccompanied from the sponsors PCS duty location to the ConUS and return. Travel cannot be between two overseas theaters. Dependents must have command sponsored documentation signed by the commander verifying command sponsorship
Category VI - Retired, Dependents, Reserve, ROTC, NUPOC, and CEC•National Guard/reserve components/members of the Ready Reserve and members of the Standby Reserve who are on the active-status list;
•Retired military members who are issued DD Form 2 and eligible to receive retired or retainer pay;
•Family members (with valid ID card) of retired members when accompanied by a sponsor.
Category I - Emergency Leave Unfunded Travel
Emergency round-trip travel in connection with serious illness, death or impending death of a member of the immediate family of the following:
•U.S. citizen civilian employees of the Defense Department stationed overseas;
•Full-time, paid personnel of the American Red Cross serving with U.S. military overseas;
•Military family members whose sponsors are stationed within the continental United States and the emergency exists overseas;
•Family members of U.S. civilian employees of the DoD when both sponsor and dependents are stationed overseas at the same location;
•Military family members when accompanied by their sponsor may travel within the ConUS if the emergency exists in the ConUS.
Category II - Sponsors in an Environmental Morale Leave (EML) Status
•Sponsors on environmental and morale leave and accompanied family members. Military personnel also must be on ordinary leave;
•DoD Dependent School teachers and accompanied family members in EML status during school-year holiday, vacation periods or employer-approved training during recess periods.
Category III - Ordinary Leave, House Hunting Permissive TDY, Medal of Honor Holders, Foreign Military, and Others
•Service members in an ordinary or re-enlistment leave status and military patients on convalescent leave;
•Military personnel traveling on permissive temporary duty orders for house hunting;
•If permissive TDY is for permanent change of station house hunting, the member may travel in the ConUS and overseas, and be accompanied by one family member;
•Family members (with a valid identification card) of a service member when accompanied by their sponsor who is in an ordinary leave status;
•Foreign exchange service members on permanent duty with the DoD, when in a leave status.
Category IV - Unaccompanied Dependents on EML and DoDDS Teachers on EML During Summer
•Unaccompanied family members (18 years or older) traveling on EML orders. Family members under 18 must be accompanied by an adult family member who is traveling EML;
•DoDDS teachers or family members in an EML status year round.
Category V - Permissive TDY (Non-House Hunting), Students, Command Sponsored Dependents•Students whose sponsor is stationed in Alaska or Hawaii;
•Military personnel traveling on permissive TDY orders for other than house hunting;
•Command-sponsored dependents (18 years of age) of service members who are stationed overseas may travel unaccompanied from the sponsors PCS duty location to the ConUS and return. Travel cannot be between two overseas theaters. Dependents must have command sponsored documentation signed by the commander verifying command sponsorship
Category VI - Retired, Dependents, Reserve, ROTC, NUPOC, and CEC•National Guard/reserve components/members of the Ready Reserve and members of the Standby Reserve who are on the active-status list;
•Retired military members who are issued DD Form 2 and eligible to receive retired or retainer pay;
•Family members (with valid ID card) of retired members when accompanied by a sponsor.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As a cadet once, I was hells impressed that my Varsity flight seemed to be moving people from one station to another. I remember Topcliffe and I think we even went to Valley. This is days when cars were not the norm and often one between 2 for officers and the station parade square was for parades. I thought THIS is the organisation I want to join.
And, of course, the Fleet Air Arm's 'Tilly' Heron regularly popped up to Lossiemouth every weekend, to start a round robin of naval air stations on its way south. It brought Jockistanis north and took English folk south.
I was supposed to go home from Kinloss as a cadet after a short detachment - plan A was to catch the Tilly to Yeovilton. But a staff chap at FONAC decided he needed some flying time, so popped up to collect me in a Sea Vampire.
That was the Navy way - style!
Another piece of American baggage we often took flying was some mysterious doctor from Upper Heyford. It turned out he needed to fly every so often to be able to claim flight pay. The first time he went flying with us, the crew gave him a full briefing, explained what was going on and invited him to sit on the jump seat. He sniffed and grunted, then went and sat in the back. The next time he just turned up and sat in the back reading a newspaper. After a few more trips like this, the new boss asked who this bloke was - and had he done anything to say thank you. Like, say, the odd bottle or a few beers from the Upper Heyford BX. "Err, no boss. In fact the bug.ger is virtually monosyllabic". "Right", said the boss (he wasn't actually one of the more popular 101 Sqn bosses, but top marks on this occasion), "the next time he turns up, send him my way and I'll tell him to $od off".
We never saw him again!
One of the latest US initiatives is the rapid removal of the injured from combat arenas. Anything which can carry an aeromed team can be used, all stops are pulled out, priority scheduling is arranged so that they can get the casualties to a specialist centre in Germany or the US as quickly as possible. It is a clear indication of real'investment in people'.
And we don't even have any permanent military hospitals any more..... I told an American that and he simply couldn't believe it.
Then there was this US warship.........
I was supposed to go home from Kinloss as a cadet after a short detachment - plan A was to catch the Tilly to Yeovilton. But a staff chap at FONAC decided he needed some flying time, so popped up to collect me in a Sea Vampire.
That was the Navy way - style!
Another piece of American baggage we often took flying was some mysterious doctor from Upper Heyford. It turned out he needed to fly every so often to be able to claim flight pay. The first time he went flying with us, the crew gave him a full briefing, explained what was going on and invited him to sit on the jump seat. He sniffed and grunted, then went and sat in the back. The next time he just turned up and sat in the back reading a newspaper. After a few more trips like this, the new boss asked who this bloke was - and had he done anything to say thank you. Like, say, the odd bottle or a few beers from the Upper Heyford BX. "Err, no boss. In fact the bug.ger is virtually monosyllabic". "Right", said the boss (he wasn't actually one of the more popular 101 Sqn bosses, but top marks on this occasion), "the next time he turns up, send him my way and I'll tell him to $od off".
We never saw him again!
One of the latest US initiatives is the rapid removal of the injured from combat arenas. Anything which can carry an aeromed team can be used, all stops are pulled out, priority scheduling is arranged so that they can get the casualties to a specialist centre in Germany or the US as quickly as possible. It is a clear indication of real'investment in people'.
And we don't even have any permanent military hospitals any more..... I told an American that and he simply couldn't believe it.
Then there was this US warship.........
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Next week, same deal.
Thiis goes on for 3 weeks or so until OC Ops asks what's going on. Seems some Canadian staffer needed both the flying hours and a trip 'home' to visit family or whatever in UK. He had never actually bothered to visit Ops and say hello.
In a similar vein, the Luftwaffe often turned up at Wattisham in an F4 on Friday afternoons. This jet always had a big 4000 lb centerline tank fitted - hardly necessary for the short hop across the North Sea. The Customs chap (this was long before the EU) would be there to meet them...
"Anything to declare?"
"Ja - just a bottle and 200 each"
"OK, bye"
Then they would hang around looking a bit shifty. When The Revenue was safely out of sight, a truck would show up from Cottesmore. Whereupon one of the F4 crew would produce an un-Dzuser and set about the centre tank. From which would appear all manner of contraband, including on one occasion a complete Mercedes exhaust system. Contraband in truck, panel back on tank, "Please vill you put unser Jet into ein Hangar bis Montag", and off they'd go.
This all worked fine, until one day the lads towing the jet managed to ding the tail on the hangar doors. Some engineer wondered whether an FGR2 tailplane would fit, but it wouldn't. I was later told (so can't vouch that it's true, Westy
) that the OC of the Luftwaffe F4 outfit wasn't too impressed - he sent a message saying "OK - you can have the kill. But until my chaps learn to supervise their aircraft's security better, they won't be coming back!"
"Anything to declare?"
"Ja - just a bottle and 200 each"
"OK, bye"
Then they would hang around looking a bit shifty. When The Revenue was safely out of sight, a truck would show up from Cottesmore. Whereupon one of the F4 crew would produce an un-Dzuser and set about the centre tank. From which would appear all manner of contraband, including on one occasion a complete Mercedes exhaust system. Contraband in truck, panel back on tank, "Please vill you put unser Jet into ein Hangar bis Montag", and off they'd go.
This all worked fine, until one day the lads towing the jet managed to ding the tail on the hangar doors. Some engineer wondered whether an FGR2 tailplane would fit, but it wouldn't. I was later told (so can't vouch that it's true, Westy
) that the OC of the Luftwaffe F4 outfit wasn't too impressed - he sent a message saying "OK - you can have the kill. But until my chaps learn to supervise their aircraft's security better, they won't be coming back!"
It wasn't particularly easy 20 years ago when I was in.
Best I could manage was the jump seat on the regular Akrotiri run and only then because I worked on 10's at the time. Struggled to get back though and was grateful for space in a Herc a week earlier than I'd planned. Mind you that was particularly comfortable as someone was lucky enough to have their car shipped back and we made use of the seats.
Best I could manage was the jump seat on the regular Akrotiri run and only then because I worked on 10's at the time. Struggled to get back though and was grateful for space in a Herc a week earlier than I'd planned. Mind you that was particularly comfortable as someone was lucky enough to have their car shipped back and we made use of the seats.
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Synopsis of the thread since the old people started:
"The Movers were all bad and controlled it and ruined it - but many fleets ran their own personal international taxi services for those in the know."
I guess thats about evens then isn't it?
"The Movers were all bad and controlled it and ruined it - but many fleets ran their own personal international taxi services for those in the know."
I guess thats about evens then isn't it?
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Mr C Hinecap
I agree, all quick to jump on the outrage bus when they dont get their own way, wont go down the route of sqn/ops guys doing thier own thing, too many stories!
MM
I agree, all quick to jump on the outrage bus when they dont get their own way, wont go down the route of sqn/ops guys doing thier own thing, too many stories!
MM
Last edited by Mobile Muppet; 9th May 2009 at 22:29.
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During my service many moons ago I did manage to obtain two or three indulgence flights but the requirement was that we had to be able to show we had a means of returning , usually a scheduled airline ticket which a refund could be claimed on, if there was no indulgence.
I did however find that the USAF was far more reasonable with not only their own servicemen and ex-service but also with other NATO forces. On one occasion I was in New Brunswick on detachment and we were all granted 10 days leave. I decided to visit the US and having obtained a lift to Bangor, Maine, I decided to try my luck with the USAF. To cut a long story short my trip went - Bangor to Westover in a T29, Westover to Dover in a Globemaster. At Dover I met up with a West Virginia ANG crew in a Super Constellation and flew to Goose, Alconbury, Mildenhall, Frankfurt, Lajes, Dover and back to their base at Martinsburg, West Virginia. Because Frankfurt was their destination and I could be offloaded and stranded the Aircraft Commander had their orders re-cut at Alconbury adding me to their crew list as a supernumerary BP 1st Class (Bridge player!). My final route back was Andrews AFB - Westover - Loring, with the final flight in a helicopter which set down in a field alongside the border crossing to Canada. I got sent back to the UK only a week later and had to fill out a form stating where I spent the previous 14 nights. I was then accused of taking the p**s. Happy days, long ago.
I did however find that the USAF was far more reasonable with not only their own servicemen and ex-service but also with other NATO forces. On one occasion I was in New Brunswick on detachment and we were all granted 10 days leave. I decided to visit the US and having obtained a lift to Bangor, Maine, I decided to try my luck with the USAF. To cut a long story short my trip went - Bangor to Westover in a T29, Westover to Dover in a Globemaster. At Dover I met up with a West Virginia ANG crew in a Super Constellation and flew to Goose, Alconbury, Mildenhall, Frankfurt, Lajes, Dover and back to their base at Martinsburg, West Virginia. Because Frankfurt was their destination and I could be offloaded and stranded the Aircraft Commander had their orders re-cut at Alconbury adding me to their crew list as a supernumerary BP 1st Class (Bridge player!). My final route back was Andrews AFB - Westover - Loring, with the final flight in a helicopter which set down in a field alongside the border crossing to Canada. I got sent back to the UK only a week later and had to fill out a form stating where I spent the previous 14 nights. I was then accused of taking the p**s. Happy days, long ago.