RAF Lyneham is to close in 2012
Lyneham's crash cat isn't high enough to divert there with pax, even if it were, it is a poor choice of diversion if the weather's abit iffy.
I agree that it's a shame that Lyneham is being closed but thems the breaks. As for overcrowding a BZN, the place isn't exactly manic at the moment in terms of movements. Furthermore, 9 Tristars and ??VC10s (12ish?) are being replaced by 9 A330s. A400 will likely get binned, freeing up loads of pan space, and most of the J fleet will be only fit for scrap in 3 years time anyway.
The whole AT fleet will need 1/2 as many stations beceause it will be 1/2 as big. Simple realy.
P.S. If you have some spare cash knocking around at the moment, a buy to let on Base Hangar View would be a sound long term investment!
I agree that it's a shame that Lyneham is being closed but thems the breaks. As for overcrowding a BZN, the place isn't exactly manic at the moment in terms of movements. Furthermore, 9 Tristars and ??VC10s (12ish?) are being replaced by 9 A330s. A400 will likely get binned, freeing up loads of pan space, and most of the J fleet will be only fit for scrap in 3 years time anyway.
The whole AT fleet will need 1/2 as many stations beceause it will be 1/2 as big. Simple realy.
P.S. If you have some spare cash knocking around at the moment, a buy to let on Base Hangar View would be a sound long term investment!
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'Most of the J fleet will only be fit for scrap in 3 years time'?
Not exactly, the re - spar programme will commence due to the extremely high fatigue useage from current ops, alot early than originally planned, but not quite ready for scrap.
Even if A400 is cancelled we will presumeably procure something else (extra C17s & Js?), which will need to park somewhere. We've suffered from a lack of AT in recent years, reducing the fleet will hardly make things better, and civil charter can only plug some of the gap.
The cost of trying to renovate Bzn negates any savings from closing Lyneham, except in the very long term, and the reduction in operational capability will affect us in the short term. The AOC said, off the record, that it won't work but is to be made to happen.
Not exactly, the re - spar programme will commence due to the extremely high fatigue useage from current ops, alot early than originally planned, but not quite ready for scrap.
Even if A400 is cancelled we will presumeably procure something else (extra C17s & Js?), which will need to park somewhere. We've suffered from a lack of AT in recent years, reducing the fleet will hardly make things better, and civil charter can only plug some of the gap.
The cost of trying to renovate Bzn negates any savings from closing Lyneham, except in the very long term, and the reduction in operational capability will affect us in the short term. The AOC said, off the record, that it won't work but is to be made to happen.
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Aha, but with all that percieved saving (not!) the MoD can afford to buy another batch of Typhoons! (Announced today) Why not just throw the money at B Waste of Space and send them on gardening leave by the way - i.e. forget the aeroplanes? That would save the expense of storing the bloody things!
However, in all seriousness, perhaps once the Hercs have left Lyneham the newly surplus hangar space could be used for said Typhoon storage?
However, in all seriousness, perhaps once the Hercs have left Lyneham the newly surplus hangar space could be used for said Typhoon storage?
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Arty:
I think you've missed the point; sad as it is to lose an airfield, it's acceptable if :
a) There isn't a criminal waste of money and
b) There won't be a massive downturn in efficiency with regard to operational effectiveness.
Neither apply here.
I gather that it won't be resolved by a change in government; by the time a general election comes too much money will have been wasted to do a U Turn. Additionally The Leader of the Opposition (who's constituency BZN is within) honestly believes that the vast majority of C130 Trg is Sim based having little effect with regard to local disruption.
Oh, how the local populace are in for a shock!!
I agree that it's a shame that Lyneham is being closed but thems the breaks.
a) There isn't a criminal waste of money and
b) There won't be a massive downturn in efficiency with regard to operational effectiveness.
Neither apply here.
I gather that it won't be resolved by a change in government; by the time a general election comes too much money will have been wasted to do a U Turn. Additionally The Leader of the Opposition (who's constituency BZN is within) honestly believes that the vast majority of C130 Trg is Sim based having little effect with regard to local disruption.
Oh, how the local populace are in for a shock!!
I absolutely cannot wait to see how the Oxon populace react to NVG training especially during the summer.
Personally I give it six months into 2013 before we are bumped off to a recently closed airfield just south of Swinetown where the runway is already marked out and the locals are used to the noise.
Tac-ATC will also love not having to drive to Keevil so I suppose there is some benefit.
My question though is what will happen to the J sims, considering they are civvy-owned? Will Thales (or whomever owns them) pay for the move or will it have to come out of the MOD's 'no-cost' budget?
If they remain at Lyn, how much is it going to cost to bus personnel to and from Bzn every day?
Personally I give it six months into 2013 before we are bumped off to a recently closed airfield just south of Swinetown where the runway is already marked out and the locals are used to the noise.
Tac-ATC will also love not having to drive to Keevil so I suppose there is some benefit.
My question though is what will happen to the J sims, considering they are civvy-owned? Will Thales (or whomever owns them) pay for the move or will it have to come out of the MOD's 'no-cost' budget?
If they remain at Lyn, how much is it going to cost to bus personnel to and from Bzn every day?
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I absolutely cannot wait to see how the Oxon populace react to NVG training especially during the summer.
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I absolutely cannot wait to see how the Oxon populace react to NVG training especially during the summer./
For what it's worth though, I do believe that Lyneham should stay open in it's current role!
It's funny how todays announcement on tranche 3 of the Eurofighter mentioned nothing about military requirement but only how many UK jobs it would save, thats the only reason we are getting it, along with FLYNX
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C130J sims are supposed to share a bldg with A400 so if the latter is canx & considering the cost.....
They might end up staying at Lyneham (Duke of Marlborough Barracks or whatever the new occupants decide to call the place). Perhaps that's the answer, the army take on the up keep of the real estate & all the RAF have to pay for is the runway which was recently re - surfaced so should be ok for potholes for a bit. If Bzn runs out of of pan space then you could even park a few frames at Lyneham on the old apron.
They might end up staying at Lyneham (Duke of Marlborough Barracks or whatever the new occupants decide to call the place). Perhaps that's the answer, the army take on the up keep of the real estate & all the RAF have to pay for is the runway which was recently re - surfaced so should be ok for potholes for a bit. If Bzn runs out of of pan space then you could even park a few frames at Lyneham on the old apron.
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Press to test!
Why don't a couple of aircraft head over to Brize one night for some goggs training. Oh and then the next night and the next and the next....
Summertime is perfect as you need to be nice and late at night/early in the morning to get the darkness needed.
Then we will see how the local population react to what is going to come in the future!!
Should be fun in Ops taking all the calls.
Summertime is perfect as you need to be nice and late at night/early in the morning to get the darkness needed.
Then we will see how the local population react to what is going to come in the future!!
Should be fun in Ops taking all the calls.
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I think you're forgetting that the Oxon masses are already used to RAF Benson night flying. Usually down to 100ft then landing virtually in their back gardens 4 nights a week, every week.
Farfrompuken,
Good points mate, but:
Closing Lyneham will ultimately save cash, if not in the short term then in the medium to long. I'm not an accountant, but even I can see that one station is cheaper to run than two. Don't get me wrong, the move will be costly but I guess the bean counters must have established the short term pain is worth the long term savings or they simply wouldn't be doing it.
As for operational effectiveness (not efficiency which is more closely related to the cost issue) , in this case two stations are probably better than one. I for one would love to see Lyneham stay open, but regardless of our effectiveness as AT providers, the cost will always be the driving force. In other words, the Treasury prefers efficiency to effectiveness.
I recently had a chat with a bloke who has fair insight into the opposition's plans for defence. His main points were: Lyneham will close, the new parking spaces at Brize are probably the closest we'll get to the A400, and the Navy's new boats are looking none to certain. He was a nice chap, ex military and on-side but the bare fact is that the piggy bank is empty.
Only 3 years to go for me, the ship is sinking and I'm not ashamed to make like a rat!!
Good points mate, but:
Closing Lyneham will ultimately save cash, if not in the short term then in the medium to long. I'm not an accountant, but even I can see that one station is cheaper to run than two. Don't get me wrong, the move will be costly but I guess the bean counters must have established the short term pain is worth the long term savings or they simply wouldn't be doing it.
As for operational effectiveness (not efficiency which is more closely related to the cost issue) , in this case two stations are probably better than one. I for one would love to see Lyneham stay open, but regardless of our effectiveness as AT providers, the cost will always be the driving force. In other words, the Treasury prefers efficiency to effectiveness.
I recently had a chat with a bloke who has fair insight into the opposition's plans for defence. His main points were: Lyneham will close, the new parking spaces at Brize are probably the closest we'll get to the A400, and the Navy's new boats are looking none to certain. He was a nice chap, ex military and on-side but the bare fact is that the piggy bank is empty.
Only 3 years to go for me, the ship is sinking and I'm not ashamed to make like a rat!!
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AA
Yeah right what?? Do you doubt me?? I have been at Benson for 4 years trust me, Benson night fly pretty much every night! And with the addition of 230 Sqn later in the year it will get worse. 4 rotary Sqns, pretty busy place!
Yeah, right .....
Champagne anyone...?
Yeah right what?? Do you doubt me??
People are referring to the local populace of the BZN area, not the population of LFA1 and the NRR (or whatever they're called these days). Your neightbours are well used to the din of the night flying just as ours are at Lyneham. The locals of Brize on the other hand are not.
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I have been at Benson for 4 years trust me, Benson night fly pretty much every night!
When I did my first night flying at Leeming 30 years ago we started at 22.30 and finished at 03.30 - we had to - it was in June, and we spent about half the total hours doing circuits....
pretty busy place
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Just a gentle reminder, it wasn't anyone at BHX who asked those guys to change into civvies - it was their CO claiming security .
BHX has made it clear on a number of occasions that they have never had any objections whatsoever to forces personnel wearing their uniforms in the Airport.
I'm sure BHX will be happy to continue to receive all diversions from Brize and no one will have to strip off.
Just a gentle reminder, it wasn't anyone at BHX who asked those guys to change into civvies - it was their CO claiming security .
BHX has made it clear on a number of occasions that they have never had any objections whatsoever to forces personnel wearing their uniforms in the Airport.
I'm sure BHX will be happy to continue to receive all diversions from Brize and no one will have to strip off.
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Never said it was, without wishing to start up the bunfight again, I believe it was all started by BZN Movers, who now get issued with shiny black hair, with a side parting, toupees and a small stick on moustache, helps if they are small in stature and Corporals as well
Never said it was, without wishing to start up the bunfight again, I believe it was all started by BZN Movers, who now get issued with shiny black hair, with a side parting, toupees and a small stick on moustache, helps if they are small in stature and Corporals as well
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Closing Lyneham will ultimately save cash, if not in the short term then in the medium to long.
The sad fact is it will affect the locals individuals more than the military; many Blue suiters will be posted/left by 2012, the contractors and secondary business outside the gate will be the main losers financially.
As for operational effectiveness (not efficiency which is more closely related to the cost issue)
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Alternative Solution
I know that the MOD have an enviable track record in wasting tax payers money, but here's a thought.....
As "London" is looking to increase it's capacity (new runway at LHR etc...), why don't the MOD sell off BZN so it can be developed as a commercial airport (BZN must be worth a bob or two, even in these days of recession?) with reasonable motorway links (M40?), and "invest" the money in expanding Lyneham?
As "London" is looking to increase it's capacity (new runway at LHR etc...), why don't the MOD sell off BZN so it can be developed as a commercial airport (BZN must be worth a bob or two, even in these days of recession?) with reasonable motorway links (M40?), and "invest" the money in expanding Lyneham?