F22/f35
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wherever sent
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squirrel,
No Marine is allowed to even speculate on getting any F-35Cs let alone make a case for that option despite aircraft life issues between Harrier and Hornet. Not much notice nor many comments on the fact that the San Diego crash Hornet was a D and traps was about all it had left in it and that was all that it could be used for.
Actually the Harrier has deployed in combat from gators with no CVNs in the vicinity. Gators can travel and turn a few gator squares without drawing any attention while everyone pays attention to CVNs. The less press the better. Probably do it again when gator air will meet the requirement(s).
S/F, FOG
No Marine is allowed to even speculate on getting any F-35Cs let alone make a case for that option despite aircraft life issues between Harrier and Hornet. Not much notice nor many comments on the fact that the San Diego crash Hornet was a D and traps was about all it had left in it and that was all that it could be used for.
Actually the Harrier has deployed in combat from gators with no CVNs in the vicinity. Gators can travel and turn a few gator squares without drawing any attention while everyone pays attention to CVNs. The less press the better. Probably do it again when gator air will meet the requirement(s).
S/F, FOG
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near EMA
Age: 29
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nuke the stars
Going back to the earlier point, would nuking asteroids help? As was mentioned earlier, in a vacuum you wouldn't get the added affect of air pressure fluctuation would you? Does the same apply for the use of thermobaric weapons and 'conventional' cruise missiles or ICBM's? Although here obvious problems with range and flight patterns and angles occur...
If, per chance, an asteroid did strike Earth. Would we notice? Millions of asteroids must have impacted the earth over the billions of centuries. After all, without asteroids the earth wouldn't have had the majority of the water it does now. And in recent centuries, lumps of 'space rock' are continually colliding with the Earth. However if you are talking about an Asteroid with the magnitude and capability to change the way we live on Earth, would nuclear weapons be of any use? Or even have an affect, after all this isn't futurama...
Please would someone with more 'knowledge' or 'experience' clear some of these questions up for me?
If, per chance, an asteroid did strike Earth. Would we notice? Millions of asteroids must have impacted the earth over the billions of centuries. After all, without asteroids the earth wouldn't have had the majority of the water it does now. And in recent centuries, lumps of 'space rock' are continually colliding with the Earth. However if you are talking about an Asteroid with the magnitude and capability to change the way we live on Earth, would nuclear weapons be of any use? Or even have an affect, after all this isn't futurama...
Please would someone with more 'knowledge' or 'experience' clear some of these questions up for me?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am interested in this to. From what I can gather some of the other options include using lasers to push the asteroid away, attaching a solar sail, attaching low powered rocket to adjust its course and there are others. These are all so long term and may not work. I have seen scientists mention using nukes but the results will depend greatly upon the material the object is made from. We could turn one large object into many smaller objects and be hit by a kind of 'shot gun blast'! However we could then nuke the swarm of smaller objects. Being hit by several small 'city killers' is still better than being hit by the 'doomsday rock' though. The fatal error in the doomsday movies is we only fire one nuke and one rocket! When it fails we do nothing! We may have to be prepared to fire several nukes at it. Possibly either impacting with the object or near it to try and push it off course. The nuclear option is not the only option but would be the entire planets only hope for an object discovered in the short to medium term. What fun if all nukes had been destroyed!
I to would like an experts opinion on the effects of a nuclear explosion in space. I hope the boys in charge look into these issues! Sadly I imagine they only think about the next 5 years and winning votes! The number one issue to many is the economy but the topic here is of far more importance!
I to would like an experts opinion on the effects of a nuclear explosion in space. I hope the boys in charge look into these issues! Sadly I imagine they only think about the next 5 years and winning votes! The number one issue to many is the economy but the topic here is of far more importance!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Around and About
Age: 39
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shut your eyes and hope for the best...
If kinetic energy is equal to 1/2 mass * velocity squared, and the mass is a very large lump of rock of god knows what weight, or even more importantly, goodness knows what density relative to its size, and its impact velocity is pretty large (which is a given for any asteroid/celestial object that makes contact with the earths surface) then the resulting impact is going to have a mildy irritating impact on the planets population to say the least.
Now think about how a solar sail, or impulse engine, or rocket or any other of our means of propulsion in space is going to effect said object and its trajectory in space.
Just to give some of you a clue, Force = Mass * Acceleration, and our solar system, and our planets', gravity well will not be helping us, and solar sails and impulse engines take a long time to get going.
Now think about how a solar sail, or impulse engine, or rocket or any other of our means of propulsion in space is going to effect said object and its trajectory in space.
Just to give some of you a clue, Force = Mass * Acceleration, and our solar system, and our planets', gravity well will not be helping us, and solar sails and impulse engines take a long time to get going.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mods, can I officially request you withdraw this thread? Asteroids and nukes have absolutely nothing to do with my original post. I am sure somewhere on this internet thingy there has to be a startrek board.
Originally Posted by fltlt
Mods, can I officially request you withdraw this thread? Asteroids and nukes have absolutely nothing to do with my original post. I am sure somewhere on this internet thingy there has to be a startrek board.
Its (cyber)space, Jim.
But not as we know it.
Last edited by diginagain; 8th Apr 2009 at 04:54.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: All Bar One
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asteroid threat! What does that have to do with the cancellation of F-22! Interesting debate on the various F-35 models! Maybe the asteroid distraction, and all its associated exclamation marks, could be taken elsewhere!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: R4808E
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forget the new carriers and F-35, spend the dosh on the guys in Afghanistan.
We could "go halves" with the US Navy 'Norfolk based ' carriers and do a job share now the 'two presidents' are big buddies.
Hang on, what's that I can see off Spithead? That was quick
We could "go halves" with the US Navy 'Norfolk based ' carriers and do a job share now the 'two presidents' are big buddies.
Hang on, what's that I can see off Spithead? That was quick
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FOG,
Thanks for your input - very interesting. I'd not heard about the Marines going in unaccompanied, and if possible would welcome some more detail. I'm not surprised that the Marines are forbidden from thinking / discussing end of the F-35B - but if I were OC USMC I'd say the same thing - but this doesn't mean that the political leadership ought not to be thinking about it.
Here's a link to Sec Gates' remarks: DefenseLink News Transcript: DoD News Briefing With Secretary Gates From The Pentagon
Gutsy stuff in terms of taking on vested interests: but no word on canceling F-35B. However, F-22 goes and C-17 production stops, too.
S41
Thanks for your input - very interesting. I'd not heard about the Marines going in unaccompanied, and if possible would welcome some more detail. I'm not surprised that the Marines are forbidden from thinking / discussing end of the F-35B - but if I were OC USMC I'd say the same thing - but this doesn't mean that the political leadership ought not to be thinking about it.
Here's a link to Sec Gates' remarks: DefenseLink News Transcript: DoD News Briefing With Secretary Gates From The Pentagon
Gutsy stuff in terms of taking on vested interests: but no word on canceling F-35B. However, F-22 goes and C-17 production stops, too.
S41
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wherever sent
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squirrel,
The USMC definitely wants and needs the F-35 as the Hornets are being used up quite rapidly. The discussion is best over some tequila (Scotch is reserved for calming enjoyable times so…).
USMC works around the globe in small detachments quite often, just less advertised than our counterparts in other services. The Harriers off gators attached to MEUs have been used at least a couple of times. Their use has not been denied just not noticed nor advertised. Another discussion best left face to face but with some Scotch (Talisker or Laguvalin) and a Camacho 11/18.
S/F, FOG
The USMC definitely wants and needs the F-35 as the Hornets are being used up quite rapidly. The discussion is best over some tequila (Scotch is reserved for calming enjoyable times so…).
USMC works around the globe in small detachments quite often, just less advertised than our counterparts in other services. The Harriers off gators attached to MEUs have been used at least a couple of times. Their use has not been denied just not noticed nor advertised. Another discussion best left face to face but with some Scotch (Talisker or Laguvalin) and a Camacho 11/18.
S/F, FOG
Surely this is an argument for more F35s? maybe designated F35D... or F35 AS (for Asteriod).
Presumably piloted by the USMC... Or the RAF based out of their Q sheds? (probably wouldn't be called out that often but would make a change from the North Sea type intercepts)
Rather reminds me of the 'Skylab' protection hats they were selling in Oz when it was due to re-enter way-back-when.
Flug
Presumably piloted by the USMC... Or the RAF based out of their Q sheds? (probably wouldn't be called out that often but would make a change from the North Sea type intercepts)
Rather reminds me of the 'Skylab' protection hats they were selling in Oz when it was due to re-enter way-back-when.
Flug
FOG...
The question is whether the things that Harriers/Gators have been used for will be done much better (or even as well) by a much bigger and more expensive machine that offers supersonic speed and stealth. In CAS, for instance, those qualities make as much sense as attaching a mowing deck to your Porsche 911 when you want to cut the grass.
When you do need those qualities, the CV will be present.
The question is whether the things that Harriers/Gators have been used for will be done much better (or even as well) by a much bigger and more expensive machine that offers supersonic speed and stealth. In CAS, for instance, those qualities make as much sense as attaching a mowing deck to your Porsche 911 when you want to cut the grass.
When you do need those qualities, the CV will be present.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wherever sent
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flaps,
Somalia limits were political. Not very many folks were versed let alone worked on urban CAS during the Somalia time period. The MEU had Harriers and Marine pilots versed in urban CAS but from my understanding the briefers higher up the food chain were unfamiliar with urban CAS and thus severe limits were placed upon the use of the Harriers.
Guzlin,
Knuckle draggers enjoy Scotch neat.
LO,
The only people who think the Harrier has performance equal to a Hornet (let alone a F-35) are the Harrier bubbas. Having said that there places for the gators. Keeping a CVN off of the coast of XXX that has a MEU doesn't make much sense and the USN has not done it.
In Somalia a CV would have been a large negative. CAS, especially urban CAS is not deep strike or battle field interdiction. Using planes and crews untrained for CAS except notionally to support ground forces in an urban environment is a recipe for disaster of both blue and red.
A CV draws more attention. LO, supersonic, and lots of ordnance at 15-20 minutes often means less than 4 mk 82 equivalents at 5-10 minutes. That is if a CVN is in the area.
S/F, FOG
Somalia limits were political. Not very many folks were versed let alone worked on urban CAS during the Somalia time period. The MEU had Harriers and Marine pilots versed in urban CAS but from my understanding the briefers higher up the food chain were unfamiliar with urban CAS and thus severe limits were placed upon the use of the Harriers.
Guzlin,
Knuckle draggers enjoy Scotch neat.
LO,
The only people who think the Harrier has performance equal to a Hornet (let alone a F-35) are the Harrier bubbas. Having said that there places for the gators. Keeping a CVN off of the coast of XXX that has a MEU doesn't make much sense and the USN has not done it.
In Somalia a CV would have been a large negative. CAS, especially urban CAS is not deep strike or battle field interdiction. Using planes and crews untrained for CAS except notionally to support ground forces in an urban environment is a recipe for disaster of both blue and red.
A CV draws more attention. LO, supersonic, and lots of ordnance at 15-20 minutes often means less than 4 mk 82 equivalents at 5-10 minutes. That is if a CVN is in the area.
S/F, FOG
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nuclear Detonation in space.
Careful mate, you're actually more likely to inadvertantly release three criminals from outer space who would then be free to use their superhuman powers on earth...unless of course some bloke who got changed in the wrong order could stop them.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shhh.... you mustn't talk about the AA (Anti-Asteroid) capability of Dave.... the asteriods probably read Pprune too, and will adjust their tactics.....
Anyway, back to the sideshow of the actual debate.
FOG,
Thanks for you courteous and informed responses - always a pleasure. Very interesting on the Somalia situation, but this goes to the heart of the matter. With the right kit (e.g. F-18s currently doing urban CAS) and more importantly, the right training, it must be possible for Dave-C to adequately do the Marines' job - accepting that you need to send a CVN.
Hence my question of without Somalia (which to the cynical outsider looked like a benefit concert for the USMC in its' initial stages), where has an MEU required fast air and only had organic AV-8Bs? This is my point - if the answer is that there haven't been any in which a CVN wasn't - or couldn't - have been available, then I guess I'd be more sympathetic. But unless there are some (in fact, quite a lot), then I'd still come down on binning Dave-B on the grounds of cost.
(And then the RN can get Dave-C, too! Hurrah!
)
S41
Anyway, back to the sideshow of the actual debate.
FOG,
Thanks for you courteous and informed responses - always a pleasure. Very interesting on the Somalia situation, but this goes to the heart of the matter. With the right kit (e.g. F-18s currently doing urban CAS) and more importantly, the right training, it must be possible for Dave-C to adequately do the Marines' job - accepting that you need to send a CVN.
Hence my question of without Somalia (which to the cynical outsider looked like a benefit concert for the USMC in its' initial stages), where has an MEU required fast air and only had organic AV-8Bs? This is my point - if the answer is that there haven't been any in which a CVN wasn't - or couldn't - have been available, then I guess I'd be more sympathetic. But unless there are some (in fact, quite a lot), then I'd still come down on binning Dave-B on the grounds of cost.
(And then the RN can get Dave-C, too! Hurrah!
)S41