Station Commanders rank
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Wing Commander?
For a short period, RAF Leuchars had a WC as station commander, about 2001, according to:-
Station OCs.
If its the same PC, I knew him as a J/T at Finningley, and he is now an Air Commodore.
Not bad for a Halton Brat!
Station OCs.
If its the same PC, I knew him as a J/T at Finningley, and he is now an Air Commodore.
Not bad for a Halton Brat!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I would not be surprised if they decided to introduce a gp capt ops to over see a 3 sqn wg - part of the expeditionary air wing structure - and leave a gp capt, rather than a wg cdr OC Base Support. A bit like the USAF structure?
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RAF Rudloe Manor was a sqn ldr post when I pitched up there as a newly graduated fg off.
And now - your starter for 10.....
Which operational (flying) base had 2 established Station Commanders?
And now - your starter for 10.....
Which operational (flying) base had 2 established Station Commanders?
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Slightly off thread. There was a retired Naval aviator worked in the sim at Lossie known as SNOWMAN - Senior Naval Officer West Morayshire And Nairn. Thoroughly nice chap too!
When I was at Kai Tak in 1968 the CO, a colourful Gp Capt called Rex Williams (Sexy Rexy to the wives) styled himself Commander RAF Hong Kong, an entirely spurious title invented by him. It didnt do him any good in the promotion stakes though, as I dont think he ever made the jump to air rank.
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EAW Structure
Pontius, there is a Group Captain in the EAW structure but he resides within 83 EAG spending most of his time in the CAOC at that giant US air base. However 83 EAG does have a resident Air Commodore as boss. Reporting to him are 901, 902, 903 (soon to go) and 904 EAWs.
Last edited by EODFelix; 18th Mar 2009 at 14:11. Reason: Typo
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sisemen,
I will offer Gütersloh when it was the RAFG Harrier home.
I x Gp Capt to look after the visible bits of concrete and 1 x Gp Capt to command in the field when the sqns lived in the woods.
Hearsay, but I understand it was not the best of arrangements; hardly surprising considering some of the 4-ring personalities that had to work together!
lm
I will offer Gütersloh when it was the RAFG Harrier home.
I x Gp Capt to look after the visible bits of concrete and 1 x Gp Capt to command in the field when the sqns lived in the woods.
Hearsay, but I understand it was not the best of arrangements; hardly surprising considering some of the 4-ring personalities that had to work together!
lm
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Felix, ty, however that of course throws up the other question. What exactly is the purpose of an EAW at a UK base? I can buy in if the entire 'forward' element deployed as a wing but they don't. Only a flight tends to deploy and then they form part of, as you say 83 EAW.
It would make sense if UK Base "X" deployed as the EAW with flight of its aircraft forming the teeth but with the majority of the aircraft 'rear' on maintenance or workup I feel the concept fails.
It would make sense if UK Base "X" deployed as the EAW with flight of its aircraft forming the teeth but with the majority of the aircraft 'rear' on maintenance or workup I feel the concept fails.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 19th Mar 2009 at 06:27.
(a bear of little brain)
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Not a full time job, I know but isn't it the case that when everyone senior has gone home for tea the Officer of the Day becomes the effective Station Commander? (as in the navy when everyone else has gone down the pub the Midshipman becomes Captain of the ship).
In which case I know a Pilot Officer, of 1 month seniority, who was Station Commander at Leuchars.
In which case I know a Pilot Officer, of 1 month seniority, who was Station Commander at Leuchars.
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There's a difference between a Station Commander and a Unit or Detachment Commander. In a nutshell, if a base has its own Stn HQ and manages its own admin rather than being parented by another unit, then it's usually deemed a Station and the OC gets to be Stn Cdr, with various extra powers and responsibilities (e.g. enhanced powers of punishment).
As late as the early 90s there were a lot of small stations; my first tour was at RAF Staxton Wold, where the Stn Cdr was a sqn ldr FC post, from where I went on to RAF Oakhanger which was run by a wg cdr Eng. Several small Signals Units were counted as stations, and friends of mine from EngO training ended up as 2nd tour flt lts as Stn Cdr RAF Boddington and RAF Bampton Castle.
However, the inexorable rise of 'The Borg' (aka DCSA) put paid to all the little independent SUs; they were closed, contractorised or made into subordinate detachments of larger sites. By the time I went back to Oakhanger as CO much of it was handed over to the PFI contractor, and the bit that was left lost its own admin support and instead was parented by RAF Odiham whilst being organisationally subordinate to DCSA HQ at Corsham. As such I was Unit Cdr of DCSA Oakhanger, rather than Stn Cdr RAF Oakhanger. The main upshot of this was that I had no ensign to salute :-(
As late as the early 90s there were a lot of small stations; my first tour was at RAF Staxton Wold, where the Stn Cdr was a sqn ldr FC post, from where I went on to RAF Oakhanger which was run by a wg cdr Eng. Several small Signals Units were counted as stations, and friends of mine from EngO training ended up as 2nd tour flt lts as Stn Cdr RAF Boddington and RAF Bampton Castle.
However, the inexorable rise of 'The Borg' (aka DCSA) put paid to all the little independent SUs; they were closed, contractorised or made into subordinate detachments of larger sites. By the time I went back to Oakhanger as CO much of it was handed over to the PFI contractor, and the bit that was left lost its own admin support and instead was parented by RAF Odiham whilst being organisationally subordinate to DCSA HQ at Corsham. As such I was Unit Cdr of DCSA Oakhanger, rather than Stn Cdr RAF Oakhanger. The main upshot of this was that I had no ensign to salute :-(
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.....and the answer is.....
RAF BENSON
In the days of The Queen's Flt the Gp Capt stn cdr post also had a busy role as a member of TQF (Deputy Captain??). Therefore, there was also a Deputy Station Commander (wg cdr post) formally established. The rest of the station hierarchy was therefore one rank down; ie as a sqn ldr I was OC Admin. The system started to change just before I left when the "wing" posts were being upgraded to wg cdr. The thieving bar stewards never gave me substitution pay for filling a wg cdr slot before I left to come to Oz.
There was also an AVM established as Captain of TQF but generally he didn't mix with mere mortals.
RAF BENSON
In the days of The Queen's Flt the Gp Capt stn cdr post also had a busy role as a member of TQF (Deputy Captain??). Therefore, there was also a Deputy Station Commander (wg cdr post) formally established. The rest of the station hierarchy was therefore one rank down; ie as a sqn ldr I was OC Admin. The system started to change just before I left when the "wing" posts were being upgraded to wg cdr. The thieving bar stewards never gave me substitution pay for filling a wg cdr slot before I left to come to Oz.
There was also an AVM established as Captain of TQF but generally he didn't mix with mere mortals.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Perhaps the record was held by Sam Curtis, late OC RAF Jurby who, when closed became OC RAF Wainfleet. I think he held both jobs for a total of 23 years and dropped in rank from sqn ldr to flt lt and RO when he retired.
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Felix, Pontius
I'd counter that the 900 series EAWs are not EAWs - they are not expeditionary. They are now essentially bases that happen to be in operational theatres. If a deployment goes beyond 6 months, I'd say it wasn't expeditionary but a new 'fixed' base. The EAWs on UK bases are totally different creatures and should be identified as such - they are for up to 6 months - anything longer and it would be roulemonted via DWR.
I'd counter that the 900 series EAWs are not EAWs - they are not expeditionary. They are now essentially bases that happen to be in operational theatres. If a deployment goes beyond 6 months, I'd say it wasn't expeditionary but a new 'fixed' base. The EAWs on UK bases are totally different creatures and should be identified as such - they are for up to 6 months - anything longer and it would be roulemonted via DWR.
A few years ago, OC Ascension Island (with a staff of about half a dozen people...) decided to appoint himself the grand title of OCBFASI - Officer Commanding British Forces Ascension Island.....
To the HQ staff at Base Aerea Gringo, Islas Malvinas, he soon became known as SCAFA - Supreme Commander Allied Forces Ascension Island....
Not a bad job - sitting around in the sun for most of the week then watching the odd TriShaw stage through.
To the HQ staff at Base Aerea Gringo, Islas Malvinas, he soon became known as SCAFA - Supreme Commander Allied Forces Ascension Island....
Not a bad job - sitting around in the sun for most of the week then watching the odd TriShaw stage through.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
They are now essentially bases that happen to be in operational theatres.
If a deployment goes beyond 6 months, I'd say it wasn't expeditionary but a new 'fixed' base.
The EAWs on UK bases are totally different creatures and should be identified as such
- they are for up to 6 months - anything longer and it would be roulemonted via DWR.
How about we bring back 224 Gp? Right theatre even.
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bspatz,
Harry Staish was Air Cdre at Aki but was downgraded to wg cdr just over 2 years ago as part of the BFC re-structure programme. The Army CO posts were also downgraded at the same time at Episkopi and Dhekelia. Imagine the uproar when CBF (RAF) at the time upgraded the Aki CO post to gp capt whilst keeping the 2 Army units at Lt Col rank. It had the Army ROs in HQ at Episkopi spitting feathers -it was a sight to see....!!
Harry Staish was Air Cdre at Aki but was downgraded to wg cdr just over 2 years ago as part of the BFC re-structure programme. The Army CO posts were also downgraded at the same time at Episkopi and Dhekelia. Imagine the uproar when CBF (RAF) at the time upgraded the Aki CO post to gp capt whilst keeping the 2 Army units at Lt Col rank. It had the Army ROs in HQ at Episkopi spitting feathers -it was a sight to see....!!