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F-4 Phantom

Old 9th Aug 2011, 22:14
  #101 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 64
McDonnell learned all they knew about that from producing the F101B
Indeed. There is that old saying about Mac Air: "Give me a fuselage of any shape or size; now give me engines that will let it go a thousand miles an hour !"
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 23:30
  #102 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
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From a book published by Macair

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Old 10th Aug 2011, 00:39
  #103 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
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You're forgetting about the F-4J(UK)

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Old 10th Aug 2011, 02:17
  #104 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cumbria
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You are quite correct Safeware, I did forget about the F4J(UK), I was probably thinking only of 'Anglisised' Phantoms.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 08:36
  #105 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Age: 58
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As you say the F4M had a purely manual wing fold

I think you'll find some of the F4M had powered wing fold as well, I remember doing the runs for the riggers for the OOP code for the wing fold on 56(F) in the late 80s.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 08:45
  #106 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 61
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The 74 Js had the powered wingfold, with the switch under the lock handle in the cockpit, if that helps. Ditto the runs.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 09:47
  #107 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I think you'll find some of the F4M had powered wing fold as well, I remember doing the runs for the riggers for the OOP code for the wing fold on 56(F) in the late 80s.
Lots of the 228OCU F4M's had powered wing folding too as they were part of the batch of aircraft ordered for the RN originally.
Used to be great fun going along the line to unfold/fold up to 25 jets wings on a Morning/Night. Got to do some cheeky little ground runs too all a Big Billy Bonus for a Sootie Liney

We also went around painting the Lock Indicator pin Dayglo Orange too after the Germany incident.

Happy days !

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Old 10th Aug 2011, 11:35
  #108 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southend on sea
Posts: 67
I seem to remember in the early 80's on the line on 56(F), that all the F4M's up to XV 417 had hydraulic wing fold, a switch in the L/H undercarridge bay, and a speed brace was all that was required. XV407 definitely did, as I had to make use of it at greenham common 1981 for the airshow to get the aircraft into the static line up, a little tight to say the least.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 11:50
  #109 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: down south
Age: 73
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the last fighter in the RAF with real character
Some of us might disagree......
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 16:30
  #110 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: E MIDLANDS
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By Matkat:

"A 92 Squadron F-4M XV422 flown by Roy Lawrence with nav Alistair Inverarity shot down Jaguar XX963 of 14 Squadron, flown by Steve Griggs. Griggs ejected twice within a five-month period; the first after being shot down by the F-4 Phantom; the second after a catastrophic engine fire over Northeast Scotland. Last I heard he was OC 41 with an AFC for NVG work".

Last heard Steve Griggs was flying for one of the low cost airlines & doing consultancy work for Babcock, but that is about 7 years ago.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 00:06
  #111 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 42
Well you live and learn!
I never worked on F4M's, I was relying on the training given at Conningsby on the Airframe course.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 09:11
  #112 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Thil
Posts: 185
I can't believe I've still got these - FLM Training notes! Claron is spot on.

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Old 11th Aug 2011, 15:11
  #113 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,101
I remember reading a report on the F4Js being readied for RAF service after some time in the desert 'boneyard'. It was recorded that when a panel was opened "a petrified lizard" fell out. The Senior Engineering Officer commented that "these aircraft had previously been operated by the US Navy on carrier-borne operations, it is therefore no surprise that the lizard was petrified"
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Old 13th Aug 2011, 11:44
  #114 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 591
Couple of piccies to bring back some memories...Phantom overhauls at a place in South Wales; bottom 2 pics are 1981; top ones @ 1989;
I got poster there twice... ho hum..

Think IIRC that 'Pontius Navigator' is in the back seat here; he will know whom is doing the driving... and unlike some other forums suggest it is not a certain Mr Hanna Jr.

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Old 10th Apr 2014, 12:06
  #115 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
My lasting memories:
The beast had a very, very impressive envelope at lowish level ( 750 KIAS clean at Sea Level AFAIR)
Vietnam, May 10 1972:

" Nearly out of missiles and starting to run short of fuel, the Phantoms went supersonic and sped toward the coast.
"At that time we had strong intelligence that the MiG-21 could not do more than Mach 1.05 below five thousand feet. We were doing Mach 1.15 in combat spread, feeling cocksure as we headed towards the coast."
Dosť recalled:
"Then a MiG-21 came up behind, overtaking fast. He made it look effortless. When I saw the MiG it was about three-quaters of a mile behind Hawkins. I called for an in-place turn, and as we began turning the MiG fired an Atoll missile at Hawkins. Initially it guided, but it couldn't handle the Gs and it wasn't ever a real threat."
After attacking the MiG broke away to the right. Instintictively Dosť turned after it, until McDevitt demanded incredulously, "What are you doing!" The back-seater's tone reminded Dosť that they had neither the missiles nor the fuel for another engagement. Chastened, the pilot reversed his turn and headed for the coast.
Almost certainly the MiG-21 that had caught up with the Phantoms was the new MF sub-type. It was the first time American crews had encountered this version, and its much improved low-altitude performance came as an unpleasant surprise.

As the survivors of Oyster Flight sped out of North Vietnam at low altitude, a MiG-21MF arrived to cause consternation for the second time that day. Oyster 2 ran out alone, 3 and 4 stayed together. Chuck DeBellevue, in Oyster 3, watched with disbelief as the Soviet-made fighter closing from behind seemed to join formation on the pair. "We were running out at seven hundred to seven hundred fifty knots(Mach 1.06 to 1.13), the F-4 wouldn"t go any faster that low. And we had a MiG-21 chasing us and keeping up-that surprised the hell out of us!" To DeBellevue, the MiG's ability to keep up was disconcerting, to Captain Larry Pettit in Oyster 4 it was terrifying: "He was at our eight-thirty position(left quarter), one hundred feet above and about three hundred feet out to the side. He caught up with us and was staying with us! I don't know if he saw us, but he had a gun and he could have strafed the out of us." Larry Pettit's next move did nothing to lessen the danger but was understandable in the circumstances: "I lowered my seat to the floor, to hide from him! He banked towards us and I thought, Oh no, he's going to let us have it with cannon....But he turned and went off in the opposite direction, Tommy Feezel and I thanked our lucky stars and got the hell out of there."

Do you remember for the old intell-reports(RAF) in the early '70s? The new performance-data(MiG-21SM,SMT,bis)? Any 'warnings' then?

Last edited by MiG21SM; 10th Apr 2014 at 14:25.
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