RAF Memorial Flight?
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RAF Memorial Flight?
Well, we've funded old banks so why not old aeroplanes.
Sir Richard Branson, Frederick Forsyth and Robin Gibb want Vulcan to keep flying - Telegraph
".. today's letter, which is also signed by Iron Maiden singer Bruce Dickinson, Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason and Marshal of the RAF Lord Craig of Radley, former Chief of Defence Staff, says the MoD should give a home to the Vulcan in an expanded RAF Memorial Flight."
Sir Richard Branson, Frederick Forsyth and Robin Gibb want Vulcan to keep flying - Telegraph
".. today's letter, which is also signed by Iron Maiden singer Bruce Dickinson, Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason and Marshal of the RAF Lord Craig of Radley, former Chief of Defence Staff, says the MoD should give a home to the Vulcan in an expanded RAF Memorial Flight."
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Can MoD Afford It?
I thought the reason that the Vulcan Display Flight was scrapped was because it was costing too much to maintain. The MoD have got even less money to spare now!
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If I understand correctly the implications of this proposal, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (BBMF) would expand into the Memorial Flight.
This expansion would be courting disaster for the long term future of BBMF because the bean counters would see an unsustainably large expenditure on these historic aircraft and inevitably the result would be the demise of the whole flight in a few years time.
The Flight currently maintains really important historic aircraft types that greatly contributed to this Country's success in war. The Vulcan, important as she may be to British engineering, is simply not in that category and she is disproportionately expensive to home and maintain compared to the Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster.
Although I understand the sentiment I am afraid of the consequences if these retired dignatories have their way.
This expansion would be courting disaster for the long term future of BBMF because the bean counters would see an unsustainably large expenditure on these historic aircraft and inevitably the result would be the demise of the whole flight in a few years time.
The Flight currently maintains really important historic aircraft types that greatly contributed to this Country's success in war. The Vulcan, important as she may be to British engineering, is simply not in that category and she is disproportionately expensive to home and maintain compared to the Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster.
Although I understand the sentiment I am afraid of the consequences if these retired dignatories have their way.
Admirable sentiment, but I agree with Soddim. Send the costs of the (BB)MF through the roof and watch it be culled...
Instead of buying the next limited edition Ferrari to appear, couldn't Nick Mason donate the £250K + he'd spend on that to fund the Vulcan?
Or perhaps he and Dave Gilmour (who is keen on things aeronautical, IIRC) could club together and buy the aircraft - it's not as if they'd be casting about for loose change down the back of the sofa to fund the aircraft for a year, after all...
Instead of buying the next limited edition Ferrari to appear, couldn't Nick Mason donate the £250K + he'd spend on that to fund the Vulcan?
Or perhaps he and Dave Gilmour (who is keen on things aeronautical, IIRC) could club together and buy the aircraft - it's not as if they'd be casting about for loose change down the back of the sofa to fund the aircraft for a year, after all...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
While maintenace was the resaon for scraping the Vulcan display flight, it was the crippling cost of a major for an individual aircraft at, IIRC, £1m that sealed its fate.
I was also an increasing diversion of resources at Waddo as the E3 was working up. Had it not been grounded when it was it would have been grounded a few years ago as main bases close and base loading increases.
There is propably no room at Coningsby so there would be no question of a single flight base.
I was also an increasing diversion of resources at Waddo as the E3 was working up. Had it not been grounded when it was it would have been grounded a few years ago as main bases close and base loading increases.
There is propably no room at Coningsby so there would be no question of a single flight base.
Come on Chaps! If the Vulcan is saved then what about all the other equally important types like the Buccaneer, Lightning, F4 etc. The list is never ending and would cost millions! Just like Concorde and all the rest.....stick them in a museum where they can be admired and talked about.
Retiring to the bunker with tin hat and a cup of tea!!
Retiring to the bunker with tin hat and a cup of tea!!
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
While maintenace was the resaon for scraping the Vulcan display flight, it was the crippling cost of a major for an individual aircraft at, IIRC, £1m that sealed its fate.
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I wouldn't argue with any of those practical perspectives, but think differently for a second. In principle, would it be good to see a Lightning flying again, to see the Vulcan continuing to fly.. and more importantly, to have in place a process which is forced to address heritage and conservation in the most general sense? Think about the principle, and think ahead.
The current BBMF inventory will not remain flying for ever, and then what? What will the RAF have to remind the nation of the part it has played? Lets not forget either, that BBMF started out as the Historic Aircraft Flight, so proposing this is nothing new anyway (one for the purists!). If it means some kind of PFI, then so be it. Something this long term and important needn't automatically be entrusted to the MoD.
The current BBMF inventory will not remain flying for ever, and then what? What will the RAF have to remind the nation of the part it has played? Lets not forget either, that BBMF started out as the Historic Aircraft Flight, so proposing this is nothing new anyway (one for the purists!). If it means some kind of PFI, then so be it. Something this long term and important needn't automatically be entrusted to the MoD.
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The current BBMF inventory will not remain flying for ever
The types currently operated have been frequently resurrected from nothing much more than the manufacturer's plate. They are all constructed in a relatively simple way using basic engineering and readily available materials and technology. Perhaps the Hurricane with some wood and fabric poses the biggest difficulty because these skills are almost dead.
Given the will to keep these prominent types going the cost is well within the realms of purely public subscription. The addition of fuel-hungry relatively modern heavy metal with more expensive technology would raise this cost to the unsustainable.
I congratulate those who got the Vulcan back into the air and I hope they can keep it flying; however, I would not like to see that endeavour jeopardise the future of BBMF as we know and love it.
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What Al R should have said is:-
The current BBMF inventory will not remain flying for ever if the Vulcan was part of it.
A better idea would be to fund this years display costs out of confiscated banker's bonuses.
The current BBMF inventory will not remain flying for ever if the Vulcan was part of it.
A better idea would be to fund this years display costs out of confiscated banker's bonuses.
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Bring back the Wessex 
There I said it
There I said it
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""A better idea would be to fund this year's display costs out of confiscated banker's bonuses.""
Except that HMG has decided that as the bonuses are "contractual" they cannot prevent the payment of these rewards for failure. Funnily I always thought that a bonus was dependent upon satisfactory performance and proportional to the profit generated, but hey, thats probaly why I never went into the City.
FWIW I think that there is merit, if the country could afford it, in absorbing the Vulcan into an enhanced RAF Memorial Flight. It is significantly popular with the public; could be seen as a fitting airborne memorial to everyone who served in the Falklands campaign; and it looks as if the bulk of the necessary engineering work has been done to keep it going for a few years, so why not? The flip side of course is that the country cannot afford it - largely due to the cost of Bankers' foul-ups.
Except that HMG has decided that as the bonuses are "contractual" they cannot prevent the payment of these rewards for failure. Funnily I always thought that a bonus was dependent upon satisfactory performance and proportional to the profit generated, but hey, thats probaly why I never went into the City.
FWIW I think that there is merit, if the country could afford it, in absorbing the Vulcan into an enhanced RAF Memorial Flight. It is significantly popular with the public; could be seen as a fitting airborne memorial to everyone who served in the Falklands campaign; and it looks as if the bulk of the necessary engineering work has been done to keep it going for a few years, so why not? The flip side of course is that the country cannot afford it - largely due to the cost of Bankers' foul-ups.
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Yes, I quite agree - except they have already gone to the scrapyard and the apparent ambition was to find a way of keeping the Vulcan flying now that it has been restored.
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The way the funding is going these days, its just a matter of time before the only things left to deploy to the Sandpit will be the BBMF.......
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Soddim,
My eldest saw the Vulcan recently and simply couldn't comprehend the power and presence of the thing - we look at it in a different context to those who follow us.
I wouldn't know how long the Lancaster for instance, will stay flying, and I agree - no one would want to see an either/or scenario. But it'd be a crying shame if we couldn't plan ahead and preserve the heritage of not the RAF but the country, for the generations who follow.
My eldest saw the Vulcan recently and simply couldn't comprehend the power and presence of the thing - we look at it in a different context to those who follow us.
I wouldn't know how long the Lancaster for instance, will stay flying, and I agree - no one would want to see an either/or scenario. But it'd be a crying shame if we couldn't plan ahead and preserve the heritage of not the RAF but the country, for the generations who follow.
Originally Posted by Al R
I wouldn't know how long the Lancaster for instance, will stay flying
Which is just now starting to become an issue as the regulators are now beinging to look to removing the need for it for GA stuff on enviromental grounds.