Loyal Toast Dilemma
Thread Starter
Loyal Toast Dilemma
Interesting question that a friend has posed.
He works for a UK company that got taken over by an International company 2 years ago.
At annual conference time they always had a big gala dinner with speeches and toasts etc. Historically was always in UK but likely to be held anywhere in future years.
The attendees probably 35% UK, 10% Irish, 35% Other EU, 20% US / Asian in terms of citizenship.
When they were just a UK company the Loyal Toast was a small issue with some people always absent when it occurrred but as they have become more and more international there has been disquiet expressed by a combination of UK younger guys who feel its outdated and other nationalities who feel no loyalty to HRH.
There are quiet a few older ex Forces personnel who feel insulted that people are even talking of it BUT there are also quiet a few younger ex Forces who are willing to see it dropped.
The dilemma friend faces is drop it and get slammed for insulting people or don't drop it and then have half the audience not take part which would be even more insulting.
Friend conscious of the fact that if next conference were held in Dubai then loyal toast would have to be to the Rulers there or wherever it was staged
Interested in feedback as he seems to be in dammed if you do / dammed if you don't scenario and wishes not to be insulting.
He works for a UK company that got taken over by an International company 2 years ago.
At annual conference time they always had a big gala dinner with speeches and toasts etc. Historically was always in UK but likely to be held anywhere in future years.
The attendees probably 35% UK, 10% Irish, 35% Other EU, 20% US / Asian in terms of citizenship.
When they were just a UK company the Loyal Toast was a small issue with some people always absent when it occurrred but as they have become more and more international there has been disquiet expressed by a combination of UK younger guys who feel its outdated and other nationalities who feel no loyalty to HRH.
There are quiet a few older ex Forces personnel who feel insulted that people are even talking of it BUT there are also quiet a few younger ex Forces who are willing to see it dropped.
The dilemma friend faces is drop it and get slammed for insulting people or don't drop it and then have half the audience not take part which would be even more insulting.
Friend conscious of the fact that if next conference were held in Dubai then loyal toast would have to be to the Rulers there or wherever it was staged
Interested in feedback as he seems to be in dammed if you do / dammed if you don't scenario and wishes not to be insulting.
racedo
With the picture you paint of the situation, I cannot for the life of me think why there is a Loyal Toast. Toast the hosts, toast the company and it's employees, toast the multinational part of the company or whatever, but a Loyal Toast seems a no no. Why would you offer a Loyal Toast to the rulers of a country you are visiting as civilians?
With the picture you paint of the situation, I cannot for the life of me think why there is a Loyal Toast. Toast the hosts, toast the company and it's employees, toast the multinational part of the company or whatever, but a Loyal Toast seems a no no. Why would you offer a Loyal Toast to the rulers of a country you are visiting as civilians?
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Well said Mr Fibble.
As Admiral Cunningham said when the Admiralty tried to discourage him from risking a large part of the mediterranean Fleet to evacuate the Army from Crete in 1941.
"It takes 3 years to build a ship - it takes 300 years to build a tradition. The Army needs our help. We will go."
I believe that is called leadership!
As Admiral Cunningham said when the Admiralty tried to discourage him from risking a large part of the mediterranean Fleet to evacuate the Army from Crete in 1941.
"It takes 3 years to build a ship - it takes 300 years to build a tradition. The Army needs our help. We will go."
I believe that is called leadership!
Thread Starter
Thank you for the responses.In answer to some of the questions the company was set up shortly after WW2 and MD was ex RAF together with quite a few of the founders plus other Services as well. Lets be honest that WW2 developed more leadership than any number of Outward Bound courses could ever do.
Family members of founders took over in the 1980's but kept the tradition going plus recruiting ex services personnel where appropriate. They sold out a couple of years ago.
Company is owned privately but conference was always a thank you for last year lets plan for next year event.
My mate was concerned that people would see this as insulting if the Loyal Toast was dropped.
He understands the tradition BUT the Annual Conference was a bit the UK arm introduced into the whole company.
After chatting he will go along the route MrFlibble suggested but will toast Head of State of country conference is held in and then Head of States here represented and then the Chef and Staff.
No doubt he will get grief but seems like a reasonable compromise as he was keen not to show disrespect to people who have served in whatever capacity within Armed Forces..
.
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Mr Flibble is spot on with 'Heads of State here Represented'. I've seen it done a number of times where there is more than on non-Commonwealth state present. Otherwise it becomes a debacle.
STH
STH
The only probelm with 'Heads of State here represented' comes if there's a band:
If the HoS is American, some wag will yell "Plaaaaaaaaaay ball!" when the band stops.
If the HoS is Italian, someone will think that Ferrari have just one another F1 race and will start spraying champagne.
If the HoS is German.....
If the HoS is American, some wag will yell "Plaaaaaaaaaay ball!" when the band stops.
If the HoS is Italian, someone will think that Ferrari have just one another F1 race and will start spraying champagne.
If the HoS is German.....
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Beags, do you remember a certain Air Traffic WingCo PMC at the home of the Vickers Funbus in the mid 80s whose surname sounded like something you might plant in your garden?
At a 3 line whip dining in night our American exchange officer (a Major) was 'invited' to attend at not much notice and was the only colonial cousin present.
PMC, no doubt trying to be a smart ass, decided to toast the various heads of state one at a time - unaware that Uncle Sam was now on parade.
So; after a long list of 'Mr Vice, the President of xyz, abc, pqr' and any other combination you care to think of, our Major is seriously unhappy not to hear his President getting a mention.
Finally, when the last toast is supposedly done and dusted our Major stands up and in a VERY loud voice, hollers - in a VERY American accent:
'Mr Vice, The President of the United States of America'
Cue many red faces, back pedalling, apologising and subseqent practice of service writing skills from the top table!
At a 3 line whip dining in night our American exchange officer (a Major) was 'invited' to attend at not much notice and was the only colonial cousin present.
PMC, no doubt trying to be a smart ass, decided to toast the various heads of state one at a time - unaware that Uncle Sam was now on parade.
So; after a long list of 'Mr Vice, the President of xyz, abc, pqr' and any other combination you care to think of, our Major is seriously unhappy not to hear his President getting a mention.
Finally, when the last toast is supposedly done and dusted our Major stands up and in a VERY loud voice, hollers - in a VERY American accent:
'Mr Vice, The President of the United States of America'
Cue many red faces, back pedalling, apologising and subseqent practice of service writing skills from the top table!
