FSTA-MSO Question
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FSTA-MSO Question
Are there any experts out there that know what brevet will be the MSO (Mission System Operator/Officer) on the FSTA. Hearing rumours that it could be a WSOp of any flavour (Eng, AEOp, ALM) but also that it could be a WSO. It looks like it could be an interesting job.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Far far away
Age: 53
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the A330 is operated by a crew of 2 pilots and a MC/MSO/AARC should only be required for complex sorties - why not use a 3rd pilot? Saves money, makes crew augmentation easier.
HAng on, that's too much like common sense. Better use Navigators.
HAng on, that's too much like common sense. Better use Navigators.
As far as I'm aware, the A400M will be operated by 2 pilots and an Air Loadmaster. Although it will have an auxiliary crew station, there is no requirement for this to be continually manned.
Any A400M AAR manning levels will only be decided when the nature of AAR operations, degree of automation and crew operating concept have been defined. But given a Mission Computer System with the same level of sophistication as that fitted in the A310MRTT, 2-person AAR for basic 'Anchor' (Towline) operations should be entirely feasible. I doubt whether the A400M would be used for Trail deployments, but again, with a MCS similar to that in the A310MRTT, 2-person AAR would be possible.
And assuredly not the 4-man circus some people are assuming for the KC-30A, eh D-IFFers?
Ah bugger, just saw this thread was about the FSTA, not A400M. Sorry for the error!
Any A400M AAR manning levels will only be decided when the nature of AAR operations, degree of automation and crew operating concept have been defined. But given a Mission Computer System with the same level of sophistication as that fitted in the A310MRTT, 2-person AAR for basic 'Anchor' (Towline) operations should be entirely feasible. I doubt whether the A400M would be used for Trail deployments, but again, with a MCS similar to that in the A310MRTT, 2-person AAR would be possible.
And assuredly not the 4-man circus some people are assuming for the KC-30A, eh D-IFFers?
Ah bugger, just saw this thread was about the FSTA, not A400M. Sorry for the error!
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Jan 2009 at 20:44.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: WILTS
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Job on FSTA is designed round a WSO but like you say "jobs for the boys" you have to guve the navs something to do irrelevent of what would be best
As for A400 2 pilots and an ALM, surely you mean 2 pilots and a WSO operating as in a Loadmaster capacity
As for A400 2 pilots and an ALM, surely you mean 2 pilots and a WSO operating as in a Loadmaster capacity
The relevant specialist might be needed for tactical low level stuff in the A400M - but for routine AAR a WSO wouldn't be essential if the right MCS is provided.
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Jan 2009 at 20:45.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deepest Lincs
Age: 75
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The actual Brevet is the same now for WSO's and WSOp's, irrespective of their expertise. (Not like the old days when you knew you were taking the p*$$ out of a Nav!!!)
It's technically impossible to take the pi$$ out of a C130K navigator - there's none left as it all trickles out during flight and dampens the seat cushion....
The MSO on the FSTA could be any flavour of WSO/WSOp. The type and role specific training will be suitable for any of the trades.
The FSTA will be operated by a 2-pilot flight deck crew when on purely AT tasks, with the aircraft not roled for AAR; for any task involving refuelling, the MSO will be an integral member of the flight deck crew. The job should indeed be fascinating, with a heady mix between the old duties of Nav/Air Eng on legacy fleets and those of an ARC.
To save the MSO's twiddling their thumbs whilst not involved on AAR tasks, they are likely to also be qualified as CSDs.
Hope that helps.......
The FSTA will be operated by a 2-pilot flight deck crew when on purely AT tasks, with the aircraft not roled for AAR; for any task involving refuelling, the MSO will be an integral member of the flight deck crew. The job should indeed be fascinating, with a heady mix between the old duties of Nav/Air Eng on legacy fleets and those of an ARC.
To save the MSO's twiddling their thumbs whilst not involved on AAR tasks, they are likely to also be qualified as CSDs.
Hope that helps.......
a heady mix between the old duties of Nav/Air Eng on legacy fleets and those of an ARC.
Trail gone single hose sir? Just click 'Set Single Hose' and there are your new refuelling brackets in less than a second. Nothing as prehistoric as that 'RAPS' nonsense - which was never mathematically proven with adequate rigour, in my opinion. Every AAR need is incorporated, RV'B', 'C' and 'D' turn range calculations, spare fuel updates, met changes, abort aerodrome changes, partial transfer calculations, fuel offload logging, min off task fuel calcualtion etc etc........
The AAR sortie is planned on the ground on a normal laptop, transferred to a USB stick and uploaded into the Mission Computer. Any updates of ZFW, ZF CG and Ramp Fuel are entered using the same software as the laptop, then the plan activates during take-off and provides all relevant ETAs etc.
And when it fails......?
Now you'll ask "And if the display fails?"
To which my reply is that you then select the other 15" screen - normally provided with a SVGA digital camera image of the receivers. By night as well as day, of course! If you're down to one display screen, you can toggle between MCS and receiver surveillance as required.
And it's all been designed by AAR Aircrew for AAR Aircrew! With a KISS philosophy, not a 'Useless bells and whistles' philosophy.
Come and see it at ARSAG 2009.
Sorry folks, I managed to mix up some threads!
I misread the headline and thought we were discussing A400M, not FSTA!
I've no idea what type of mission system is intended for the FSTA, save that it is intended to fly with a 3-person flight deck in the AAR role.
I misread the headline and thought we were discussing A400M, not FSTA!
I've no idea what type of mission system is intended for the FSTA, save that it is intended to fly with a 3-person flight deck in the AAR role.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Far far away
Age: 53
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't make ARSAG this year; but good to see you are going FFP 
Did you persuade Uncle Sam to pay?
If anyone has the crew model for the FSTA in the AAR role I'd be very interested - a PM with address of official contact would be super.
Did you persuade Uncle Sam to pay?If anyone has the crew model for the FSTA in the AAR role I'd be very interested - a PM with address of official contact would be super.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have an e-mail obligating funds (that great DTS catchphrase). Whether that translates now the one that obligated it has moved on, we'll see.
But yes, I'm relying on foreign aid for ARSAG.....
But yes, I'm relying on foreign aid for ARSAG.....
