Sex and the Naval Aviator - Video
Tourist
Thank you for taking the trouble to divvy that up and post it. It's more than 10 years since I stopped flying but I sat there with burning ears at some of his insights.
The Ancient Mariner
PS Is there a part 6 still to come?
The Ancient Mariner
PS Is there a part 6 still to come?
Last edited by Rossian; 3rd Feb 2009 at 16:25. Reason: forgot to ask
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Tourist
Thanks again, matey. Really thought-provoking stuff; and yes, I've seen all the examples that he described in those last two clips and I only did something about it in one case. Two divorces, one suicide and two alcoholics. Mea culpa.
The Ancient Mariner
The Ancient Mariner
Dang, but that man's good, isn't he? Not so much surprised that he had me banged to rights, but how come he knows so much about Mrs C? A classic video in every sense and well worth downloading and saving to the PC, though the .vlc playlist continuity may leave a little to be desired, it is on the whole "fine, thankyou"! I'd give you "Heat and Rep" Tourist, but that's for another forum, so suffice to say thank you, to both you and Flipster, for revealing rather more about myself than I really wanted to know!
Tourist
Many thanks for making this gem available.. I saw it aeons ago and had given up all hope of ever finding a copy again.
It would be interesting to hear a UK military shrink's perspective on aircrew personality traits.
sv
It would be interesting to hear a UK military shrink's perspective on aircrew personality traits.
sv
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0139; 11th Feb 2009 at 18:32.
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Hi All,
I found this to be a very entertaining video, but when I went to check his reference list all I could find was a similar paper in a 1983 edition of the Society of Automotive Engineers (http://www.avia141.com/Articles/Lifestyle%20Keys.pdf) that ended with: "Note: The opinions presented in this paper are those of the author. No endorsement by the Department of the Navy has been given or should be inferred."
Would anyone have access to the reference list / sources he used to compile this presentation? or is it merely an opinion piece based on anecdotal evidence?
I thank you in advance,
Jolly
I found this to be a very entertaining video, but when I went to check his reference list all I could find was a similar paper in a 1983 edition of the Society of Automotive Engineers (http://www.avia141.com/Articles/Lifestyle%20Keys.pdf) that ended with: "Note: The opinions presented in this paper are those of the author. No endorsement by the Department of the Navy has been given or should be inferred."
Would anyone have access to the reference list / sources he used to compile this presentation? or is it merely an opinion piece based on anecdotal evidence?
I thank you in advance,
Jolly
Reference Lists??
Jolly Girl
I think you'll find that most of the aircrew who've watched/listened to this don't need a "reference list", they've LIVED it and recognised instantly what he was on about.
The Ancient Mariner
I think you'll find that most of the aircrew who've watched/listened to this don't need a "reference list", they've LIVED it and recognised instantly what he was on about.
The Ancient Mariner
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Rossian,
That may be (and I may see a little of myself in it as well), but would you want your aircraft designed and qualified to that same standard?
;-)
Jolly
That may be (and I may see a little of myself in it as well), but would you want your aircraft designed and qualified to that same standard?
;-)
Jolly
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JG
You are right to want to quantify things - we are CONTROLLERS, after all!
In fact, it might be an idea to conduct further studies to win over the very few 'doubting Thomases'.
However, I think what Ross (or is it Ian?) is trying to say is that you don't need studies nor statistics to tell you that water is wet, ice is cold or that fire is hot. When you see something so obviously correct, you can accept that at face value. Soooo many people feel that, after watching TFA, Frank Dully and the USAF chap were spot-on - if you want confirmation, ask the wives/husbands!
The only unfortunate aspect of TFA is that some aviators can't remember the gist of the whole presentation and assume that because we are predictable, emotionally-distant, mission-orientated, compartmentalising controllers that we ALL are destined to become failing aviators.
That, of course, is not the point the guys were trying to make. Just that people like us need our skills to do what we do but if there are too many outside distractions, we can lose the ability to compartmentalise; sometimes with disastrous consquences. Furthermore, it is only our peer group whom we will listen - for which I can vouch.
Very occasionally, you find someone who says
"Its all bollox' ....but everyone in the room knows differently as that person is usually the most distant, overcontrolling compartmentaliser on the unit. Perhaps they are so 'controlling' that they do not like being 'discovered' and that they see a correct assessment of their inner-being as a threat to their individuality or, at least, some form of control over them. They don't like it and as they say,
"They exit stage left".
Now, if you don't mind, I must go for a blast in my new Porsche but, really, I'm fine thank you!
flip
You are right to want to quantify things - we are CONTROLLERS, after all!
In fact, it might be an idea to conduct further studies to win over the very few 'doubting Thomases'.
However, I think what Ross (or is it Ian?) is trying to say is that you don't need studies nor statistics to tell you that water is wet, ice is cold or that fire is hot. When you see something so obviously correct, you can accept that at face value. Soooo many people feel that, after watching TFA, Frank Dully and the USAF chap were spot-on - if you want confirmation, ask the wives/husbands!
The only unfortunate aspect of TFA is that some aviators can't remember the gist of the whole presentation and assume that because we are predictable, emotionally-distant, mission-orientated, compartmentalising controllers that we ALL are destined to become failing aviators.
That, of course, is not the point the guys were trying to make. Just that people like us need our skills to do what we do but if there are too many outside distractions, we can lose the ability to compartmentalise; sometimes with disastrous consquences. Furthermore, it is only our peer group whom we will listen - for which I can vouch.
Very occasionally, you find someone who says
"Its all bollox' ....but everyone in the room knows differently as that person is usually the most distant, overcontrolling compartmentaliser on the unit. Perhaps they are so 'controlling' that they do not like being 'discovered' and that they see a correct assessment of their inner-being as a threat to their individuality or, at least, some form of control over them. They don't like it and as they say,
"They exit stage left".
Now, if you don't mind, I must go for a blast in my new Porsche but, really, I'm fine thank you!
flip
Last edited by flipster; 12th Feb 2009 at 09:22.
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Many thanks Tourist, I'm really glad I get to see this again - when I first saw it on the flying authorisers' course it sparked an interest in me that eventually led to my MA dissertation. I also recommend "Darker Shades of Blue" by Tony Kern if you can find a copy - very similar ground and with some fascinating case studies [and referenced for JG!].
at my current location where the religious nutters
rule U Tube is band 
so will have to await the end of my tour 
and watch it at home
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Sex and the Naval Aviator
You sure got a drubbing from the forum on this. I saw the film several times in the 1970s and early 80s. In fact our squadron's flight surgeon was the first to introduce it. The primary thrust of the film was the fact that a good aviator was also very good at compartmentalization. I also would like to find a copy of the film/video. For many years it could be ordered from the Navy's Training Films Library. Perhaps there is still a copy in their archives.
Dully's characterization of "the emasculating bitch" is one of the best non PC descriptions of certain women married to men who are achievement oriented people.
Sadly for the "truth" that element of his analysis will tend to be deleted in our brave new world inhabited by people afraid to speak out about why marriages fail.
Dully's film was a hell of a wake up call. He had a few sessions filmed whose intended audience was not Naval Aviators, but their spouses.
" If you want to know why your husband does what he does, you'll know but you won't be able to do much about it other than understand"
was part of his message. Most women then, and even more empowered women now, are unable to accept that truth either. The emotional blackmail of "but if you love me you'll change" still destroys marriages.
Best advice I got before marriage: You'd better like her as she is, since she's unlikely to change for anything "Better" than on the day you drive the model off the show room floor. I wish women were given that advice as well.
(Full disclosure: once married, still married, 20+ years, and with every intention of remaining so. I've seen so many marriages crash and burn among my colleagues, however, that there were times I wonder why anyone married, at all.)
Dully was was good for his time. He did a great job of describing people who he interacted with every day. Current Navy still uses "life change points" checklist as a helping tool for aircrew and Ops officers to answer the usual question:
"Should Jennings be in the cockpit today, or does he need to complete FOD walkdown in his personal life first?"
I'd say Dr Phil owes Dully a debt. Caveat: Dully didn't use the scientific method of analysis, as he had poor tools for quantifying his observations.
His analysis, however, while being labeled as "anecdotal" is certainly based on a LOT of observation. A number of my psychologist friends believe that over time, Dully started to read his own news clippings and began to belief he was preaching a new Gospel. Not a surprise, and a very human habit. It in no way diminishes the value of what he tried to alert his leadership chain to: if we don't understand our pilots, we'll keep having human factors based mishaps at rates we find unacceptable.
Sadly for the "truth" that element of his analysis will tend to be deleted in our brave new world inhabited by people afraid to speak out about why marriages fail.
Dully's film was a hell of a wake up call. He had a few sessions filmed whose intended audience was not Naval Aviators, but their spouses.
" If you want to know why your husband does what he does, you'll know but you won't be able to do much about it other than understand"
was part of his message. Most women then, and even more empowered women now, are unable to accept that truth either. The emotional blackmail of "but if you love me you'll change" still destroys marriages.
Best advice I got before marriage: You'd better like her as she is, since she's unlikely to change for anything "Better" than on the day you drive the model off the show room floor. I wish women were given that advice as well.
(Full disclosure: once married, still married, 20+ years, and with every intention of remaining so. I've seen so many marriages crash and burn among my colleagues, however, that there were times I wonder why anyone married, at all.)
Dully was was good for his time. He did a great job of describing people who he interacted with every day. Current Navy still uses "life change points" checklist as a helping tool for aircrew and Ops officers to answer the usual question:
"Should Jennings be in the cockpit today, or does he need to complete FOD walkdown in his personal life first?"
I'd say Dr Phil owes Dully a debt. Caveat: Dully didn't use the scientific method of analysis, as he had poor tools for quantifying his observations.
His analysis, however, while being labeled as "anecdotal" is certainly based on a LOT of observation. A number of my psychologist friends believe that over time, Dully started to read his own news clippings and began to belief he was preaching a new Gospel. Not a surprise, and a very human habit. It in no way diminishes the value of what he tried to alert his leadership chain to: if we don't understand our pilots, we'll keep having human factors based mishaps at rates we find unacceptable.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 11th Mar 2013 at 14:45.