RAF Police threaten civilian with FPN off camp!!

[Champagne Anyone?]

I was astounded to receive a call from a close friend of mine who is normally mild natured but was furious at the attitude of a Flt Lt APM at a certain training base in Lincolnshire.

On approaching the barrier, he undid his seatbelt, whilst stationary in order to get his pass from his pocket. He saw said APM walking towards the road and politely gestured for him to cross infront before proceeding the 15m to the gate. (APM had been seen walking from the A17 direction towards the camp minutes earlier)

APM strode over and started to dress him down for not wearing his seatbelt, eventhough he was stationary, and, had been courteous enough to let the APM cross infront of him.

Young officer then went in to the blurb that it was an offence not to wear a seat belt and that he could issue him a ticket on the spot for not wearing it. When my friend asked when the law changed enableing him to issue a ticket to a civillian, he was told 'I can, and I can also ban you from the camp!'

When did the RAFP gain the power to issue civillians, off camp, fixed penalty notices for traffic offences on the civil roads??

My friend is an ex Lincs Bobby and was astounded by the attitude of this officer and also the revelation that he 'could' be issued an FPN by the RAFP off camp for what was a civil traffic offence. (eventhough he was stationary which provided a defence in law!)

He decided not to argue with Plod and continued 10m then took off the seatbelt again to gain access to his pass.

Now, I cannot recall any change in the law which allows RAFP/APM to issue civillians FPNs. Have I missed something somwhere?

Any views would be welcome, especially from the APM who made the threats!

[FJJP]

The APM is an ass. RAFP have no jurisdiction whatsoever over civilians on or off camp, let alone issue FPNs. If they have to deal with a civilian, they have to call in the local police. Witness what happened when protesters broke into several camps a few years ago [inc the women at Greenham Common] - RAFP couldn't touch them, arrest them or anything.

A plod tried it on me once [off base on a public road] for doing 70 in a 60 zone and stopped me because I was in uniform [blue light, the lot - which is illegal on a public road]. He was extensively rebriefed by the base chief plod soon after.

I would have submitted a formal complaint to OC Admin - that sort of attitude we don't need. The Forces and media are doing a great job turning the tide of public opinion pro Forces. Twits like this bonehead can only serve to damage the perception of the public.

I'd get your friend to write a formal complaint to OC Admin. This pratt needs to be knocked of his high horse of self importance before he does some substantial damage. Make sure he mentions in his letter that he is an ex-policeman.

[Tiger_mate]

I'd get your friend to write a formal complaint to OC Admin.

Station Cdr and local MP is where my snottagram would go. There are exemptions from wearing seatbelts and whilst they are statistically unlikely to apply, they just may have done, making the presumed guilty even more unforgiveable. Sadly we our fair share of them

Medical grounds with Doctors certificate
Delivery vans
Reversing
Taxis

..by way of example.

[isaneng]

Everybody has one........

Before everybody goes scuffer bashing, we've all got a merchant banker in our trade group. Sounds like this could be he! Previous briefings for various duties have also stated that RAFP have no powers over civilians, and can only detain until civ cops appear on scene. A local complaint seems quite appropriate, although question of evidence/witnesses, otherwise could just become a slagging match. However, let's try and avoid this thread becoming a plod attack, and stick to specifics - I hate to admit, but the local guys have been helpful and sensible recently!!

[Jackonicko]

I have to agree. One bad apple, and all that.....

RAF Benson's Police Flight Corporals are a great advert for the service, and deserve every possible pat on the back. They are articulate, good humoured, helpful, polite and friendly, as well as efficient and responsive. I've had reason to seek their assistance on a number of occasions, and have been impressed every time.

[Prop-Ed]

What's all this "let’s not start slagging scuffers" nonsense? Can't have enough threads bashing these losers of the human race. Come on everyone, lets get the boot in!

[FJJP]

Isaneng, I'm not intent on bashing the RAF Feds. I have found the vast majority friendly and very helpful - I don't have any axe to grind.

But that one bad apple needs to be sorted sooner rather than later before any serious damage is done.

Prop-Ed, not helpful...

[Al R]

A mate left and joined the real plod (early 90s). He was in the beat wagon at 0100 in Wiltshire when the old sweat he was with nudged him awake and pointed to 4 lads, short hair, jeans, dessies and sweat tops on making their way around the bend past the shops towards the main gate (can you tell where it is yet?). They were generally hooning about and one of them carelessly threw a chip wrapper at the wire so as they walked almost past the main gate, the old sweat blipped them with the blues and screeched up behind them. The orderly military scuffer ran out doing his flies up and asked what the matter was. Civpol ranted a little that he had seen the men throwing litter and generally behaving like arses, and were a disgrace to the military, and weren't a patch on the military that he had been in in 1856.

Anyway, the RAF Fed decided that hey, here was a chance to show his civpol mate what real discipline was all about so lined the men up and started bawling and them and giving them press ups. "Right, you shower of shyte" he screamed after 5 minutes or so of beasting.. ".. names pronto, and where do you lot work?". "Actually Corporal.. it is Corporal isn't it? We have nothing to do with the military" said one in a well spoken voice".. I don't suppose you have a telephone that I can use please, so that I can have a very quick chat with my solicitor?". Mate is now in NZ and still cracks up when he reminds me of it.

[isaneng]

FJJP, sorry, I didn't mean to infer that you were out to upset people, my comments were aimed at some of the prats that go fishing for reaction. Apologies if it appeared as a personal comment - blame my poor grammar/style!

[minigundiplomat]

You know the main difference between RAF Coppers and Adolf Hitler?

Adolf was a substantive Cpl.

[Mmmmnice]

.....I think that's Adolf? Sorry MGD, once a nibber always a nibber!!

[Chicken Leg]

Adolph was a substansive Cpl

Hmm. Shouldn't that be substanTive?!

[Emerson Cahooners]

Could this be the same young plod who was at Aldergrove circa 2001/2 and proved so unpopular in such a short time that his sparkly new mountain bike mysteriously found itself jettisoned into Lough Neagh from 2000ft, allegedly, possibly?

[R 21]

Could this be the same Plod at Aldergrove who threatened to arrest a certain some would say grumpy MACr? Or the same Plod who was fighting in the Rose Bowl .......... all rumour of course

[Karl Bamforth]

One morning while attending the station execs briefing, Station commander was late and all others looking worse for wear. CO turns up apologises for being late as he was summoned to the guard room, by chief plod, something about them responding to an explosive incident involving a piano the night before. Station commander had to apologise as it was his idea to blow it up. Apparently the only ones not finding the events of the night before funny was the RAFP's. Understandable though in this day and age.

[tonker]

If you have left the Queens Highway, and are thus on private property you are not obliged to wear a seat belt.

[Bertie Thruster]

RAF Valley.(A beautiful posting on Anglesey, N.Wales) Loss of 1250 (id card) "prevalent offence". Big push from Valley senior plod to nail such offenders...................

I was jogging (as one used to do!) round the tundra outside the camp. Spotted in the sodden marsh between a couple of those funny bits of rock.....a wallet.....yes..... with cash, cards and 1250.

Joy of joys...it was the senior plods 1250!

[glad rag]

Indeed, rafp and MT have never had a happy relationship.

[AgentA]

RAFP view of Incident

My apologies if this is a repeat but my original post didn't appear so I re-wrote it!

Firstly can I say that I am not defending the RAFP officer's manner, and I am genuinely sorry that your friend was dealt with inappropriately (accepting that we only have one side of the debate). I would offer a couple points of clarification which (hopefully) will close some elements of this discusssion:

1. RAFP cannot and do not issue FPNs though some units may have a local administrative system to manage warnings (speeding, bad-driving, etc) as an escalation to banning serious or persistant offenders from camp. Such action would only be taken with the Station Commander's agreement and authority but could apply to both Service or civilian drivers.

2. RAFP do have powers of arrest over civilians under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 S24A (this power affords anyone not just us rozzers the power to arrest an individual for an indictable (serious) offence. This would not, however, be appropriate in this situation, even if the individual had been committing a road traffic violation.

I suspect the RAFP officer concerned was inexperienced and over-stepped the mark of what is reasonable but then who hasn't made mistakes (how many of you have walked away from or flown away from a situation you wouldn't like to repeat?). Treat everyone, civilian or serviceman in the same manner as you would the station commander and you can't go far wrong.

I hope the officer concerned has learnt from the situation. The thread is now being beaten out on the RAFP jungle drums so I suspect it will not be long before he or she sees the outcome of the situation. Ultimately, if your friend feels that strongly, then perhaps he should write to OC Administration Wing or the Station Commander but I would hope that he can chalk it up to experience.

Thank you to those of you that have defended our honour. Please feel free to take a copy of your post to your nearest RAFP flt to claim a free cup of tea or coffee (no doughnut jokes please).

[dmanton300]

If this "I can issue you an FPN" thing happens to you ands you're not happy about it always remember that as a Police officer I can only offer you the option of an FPN. You are perfectly entitled to refuse it and then the person in question has two options. A:/Let it go and send you on your way, and B:/ report you for process. If you are happy that you've done nothing wrong always opt for being reported. It'll shag the officer's day up if he decides to pursue it (report file etc., court date, statement of evidence, CPS advice etc. etc.) And also note whether or not he cautions you when he reports you. That'll likely be the last you hear of it. Especially if it's anything other than a Home Office plod, and less likely to know exactly what he's talking about.

Not trying to screw my fellow officers over, but I'm not a huge fan of people who dish FPN's out like they're confetti, and some do. FPN's are sometimes like meetings - the practical alternative to work!