War Zone on Channel 5
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KAF still has incoming from time to time does it not?
If you don't like going outside the wire for what they're paying you, PVR. Why drag someone else down because you don't respect the job they do for the pay they receive?
If you don't like going outside the wire for what they're paying you, PVR. Why drag someone else down because you don't respect the job they do for the pay they receive?
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Slightly away from the original thread topic, however....
The Op allowance isn't a 'getting shot at' allowance. It is paid to help towards the difficulties, costs and associated problems of living overseas away from home and family. Something that affects everybody.
For goodness sake, as has been pointed out, different people do different jobs with different risks. Accept it or get out. Pretty simple really.
The Op allowance isn't a 'getting shot at' allowance. It is paid to help towards the difficulties, costs and associated problems of living overseas away from home and family. Something that affects everybody.
For goodness sake, as has been pointed out, different people do different jobs with different risks. Accept it or get out. Pretty simple really.
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It's true that the RAF doesn't always do itself the biggest favour, but presumably they are trying to show all sides - didn't the Army just have a series about Combat Chefs??
Or perhaps we could avoid all the bluntness by leaving the blunties at home and just take the hard-edged combat vets from the AT, SH and the FJ worlds to do our jobs leaving them to admire us at home or complain about being called at 2000 on a Sunday night... Of course we'd have no mail, no flights booked, no laundry, long drop latrines, constant Compo but at least we'd only glorify the frontline...
It might not be the best and our near literate cousins on ARRSE might find they have some ammunition, but we have to encourage people to join the RAF in all trades. The ARRSE guys presumably haven't slagged off Combat Chefs, or is it because they are all Chefs and Loggies anyway (that's if they're not just cadets after all)?
Or perhaps we could avoid all the bluntness by leaving the blunties at home and just take the hard-edged combat vets from the AT, SH and the FJ worlds to do our jobs leaving them to admire us at home or complain about being called at 2000 on a Sunday night... Of course we'd have no mail, no flights booked, no laundry, long drop latrines, constant Compo but at least we'd only glorify the frontline...
It might not be the best and our near literate cousins on ARRSE might find they have some ammunition, but we have to encourage people to join the RAF in all trades. The ARRSE guys presumably haven't slagged off Combat Chefs, or is it because they are all Chefs and Loggies anyway (that's if they're not just cadets after all)?
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I don't think it showed the RAF at all in a bad light. The junior service has always been a bit left field and long may we cherish that individuality. By the way, I wonder what those champions of true professionalism on ARSE would have said (if we had the interweb back in 1940 of course), about these gash hands? Look at 'em for Christ's sake.. sleeping on duty, smoking in uniform, some with no hats on, some hats worn incorrectly and hands in pockets.
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Op Allowance
The allowance is a getting shot at allowance, it is specifically paid to those locations where the degree of risk is considered greater than that allowed for in the X Factor; for this reason some op locations don't get it.
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While I am totally against military bullSh1t whilst on operations, a line in the sand must be drawn between being a professional military organization and a rag tag outfit, especially when in the eyes of our Allies.
The question is though - At what point do we draw the line?
The question is though - At what point do we draw the line?
"On the Psychology of Military Incompetence" by Norman Dixon
Pimlico 1976
Especially the articles relating to the Boer and Israeli forces, neither of which were noted for their dress standards, but both of which were particularly effective at giving others - including our good selves - a pretty good kicking.
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 7th Jan 2009 at 18:31.
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To answer your question, may I commend to you:
"On the Psychology of Military Incomptence" by Norman Dixon
Pimlico 1976
Especially the articles relating to the Boer and Israeli forces, neither of which were noted for their dress standards, but both of which were particularly effective at giving others - including our good selves - a pretty good kicking.
"On the Psychology of Military Incomptence" by Norman Dixon
Pimlico 1976
Especially the articles relating to the Boer and Israeli forces, neither of which were noted for their dress standards, but both of which were particularly effective at giving others - including our good selves - a pretty good kicking.
I never actually said that the smartest military would always win all the time. Personal standards and values do help in all walks of life.
And to keep the thread on topic, looking back on the 'War Zone' it may actually turn out to be a very good recruiting tool.
Last edited by Gunnerrock; 7th Jan 2009 at 18:38. Reason: Keep on topic
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The allowance is a getting shot at allowance, it is specifically paid to those locations where the degree of risk is considered greater than that allowed for in the X Factor; for this reason some op locations don't get it.
No, you don't, hence my reply.
There IS certainly a higher degree of risk and harsher living conditions (granted some much harder than others-I have experienced both) in operational theatres such as Herrick and Telic.
At the end of the day, I think we are talking about the same thing and this is just semantics.
This is the same age old argument that has existed for years.
E.g. why did anybody who lived and worked inside the wire at Aldergrove for 28 days or more get a medal, when there were people out on the ground getting shot at?
Simple- they were posted there to do their job whatever it may be. They didn't make the rules.
Like I said, if people don't agree or like it then move on. It is not worth losing heart beats over. Smacks of school kids not wanting to share their sweets with the less popular kids.
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Whilst I completely accept that the showering and disco scenes were not how I would like the public to feel about the contribution of those at KAF, can I raise the following points?
1. Everyone, even the SF have QMs etc whose job it is to supply and support, not to fix bayonets.
2. Everyone, bar one very special (very unlucky) person, will find that someone else has done more killing or taken more incoming. You may feel that he or she has 'done less' than you - but there will be plenty that have 'done more' than you.
3. When does an IDF strike count? Is it manly to take 10 rounds per week or is the threshold 30? When does it become acceptable to say you were under fire?
4. How many EF do you need to attrit before you can assume manhood? How many inhabitants of ARSE (?) have genuinely brought one of Her Majesty's foes to account? I am sure there are many, but there will also be many who haven't.
Summary: Not great coverage, but let's not sledge people for doing their jobs far from home, no matter how important we consider them compared to our own.
I personally believe that there is fat at KAF that needs a bit of trimming. (Not QFI trimming - which is never acceptable) but let's not fall into a 'I'm harder than you' argument.
1. Everyone, even the SF have QMs etc whose job it is to supply and support, not to fix bayonets.
2. Everyone, bar one very special (very unlucky) person, will find that someone else has done more killing or taken more incoming. You may feel that he or she has 'done less' than you - but there will be plenty that have 'done more' than you.
3. When does an IDF strike count? Is it manly to take 10 rounds per week or is the threshold 30? When does it become acceptable to say you were under fire?
4. How many EF do you need to attrit before you can assume manhood? How many inhabitants of ARSE (?) have genuinely brought one of Her Majesty's foes to account? I am sure there are many, but there will also be many who haven't.
Summary: Not great coverage, but let's not sledge people for doing their jobs far from home, no matter how important we consider them compared to our own.
I personally believe that there is fat at KAF that needs a bit of trimming. (Not QFI trimming - which is never acceptable) but let's not fall into a 'I'm harder than you' argument.
kate
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sissyj,
Kate will have to do the same thing that plenty of others have done and simply grin and bear it. The media have this innate ability to take what you think is a simple and innocuous throw away line, hoop you and leave you thinking "****, that's not what it was meant to sound like"
Kate, like several others in this "show" who are going to end up holding their heads in their hands in frustration will have to take comfort in the knowledge that MOST sensible folk will fully understand that the camera and journo tw@t's often do lie
Kate will have to do the same thing that plenty of others have done and simply grin and bear it. The media have this innate ability to take what you think is a simple and innocuous throw away line, hoop you and leave you thinking "****, that's not what it was meant to sound like"
Kate, like several others in this "show" who are going to end up holding their heads in their hands in frustration will have to take comfort in the knowledge that MOST sensible folk will fully understand that the camera and journo tw@t's often do lie
I suspect that those most hard on the Welsh lass will be service people. To the average civvy she came across as higher-calibre-than-you-expect-a-JR-to-be, and as a solid Welsh girl doing a bloody good job of keeping her chin up in circumstances that may not have been akin to the trenches, but which were far from enviable.
Taxydual,
Stoppers,
Taxydual,
Stoppers,
Possibly worth a comparison with Ireland in 1975/6 at the height of the troubles.
660 squadron Army Air Corps Long Kesh.
Unrestricted bar, beer and spirits available to all off duty personnel.
Much beloved by the prison officers and on one famous occasion by members of the parachute regiment ferried in by Puma from Bessbrook for the evening. Two ended up in hospital with alchohol poisoning. Next morning the rest would have sooner taken on the IRA with pop guns rather than fly back down south.
Disco every Saturday night (the famous coach load of nurses never turned up).
However lots of local lasses did.
Pilot........Excuse me miss would you like to dance.
Mademoiselle.......... F**k off I've got time for another pint.
After 24 hour duty period finishing at 12AM.
Sh*t,, shower shave and off to Corkens to drink loads of Guiness courtesy of our covert duty vehicle.
Morale was so high people volunteered to extend their tours.
Whats the betting that the alchohol restriction in Kandahar has been insisted on by the spams.
As they say in the infantry any fool can be uncomfortable.
Reminds me of stories my late father told me about his time in Korea. Even then the Americans had their icecream machines and PX facilities.
660 squadron Army Air Corps Long Kesh.
Unrestricted bar, beer and spirits available to all off duty personnel.
Much beloved by the prison officers and on one famous occasion by members of the parachute regiment ferried in by Puma from Bessbrook for the evening. Two ended up in hospital with alchohol poisoning. Next morning the rest would have sooner taken on the IRA with pop guns rather than fly back down south.
Disco every Saturday night (the famous coach load of nurses never turned up).
However lots of local lasses did.
Pilot........Excuse me miss would you like to dance.
Mademoiselle.......... F**k off I've got time for another pint.
After 24 hour duty period finishing at 12AM.
Sh*t,, shower shave and off to Corkens to drink loads of Guiness courtesy of our covert duty vehicle.
Morale was so high people volunteered to extend their tours.
Whats the betting that the alchohol restriction in Kandahar has been insisted on by the spams.
As they say in the infantry any fool can be uncomfortable.
Reminds me of stories my late father told me about his time in Korea. Even then the Americans had their icecream machines and PX facilities.
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Vortex, it's not how hard it can be in the Light Blue Machine (broken it may be) it is how hard the bull**** rules imposed on you by some REMF makes it.
Once you've got the primary jobs done then you go onto the getting it as comfortable and bearable as possible. Having trivia like, e.g. your combats are too faded......is really not necessary. It all boils down to leadership, a good leader would set out the tasks and standards and say carry on, when finished report to me at the bar where I will have cold beer waiting. The SNCO's would ensure tasks done and standards maintained.....
But then the media wouldn't want to film that, far too professional and boring for them....
Once you've got the primary jobs done then you go onto the getting it as comfortable and bearable as possible. Having trivia like, e.g. your combats are too faded......is really not necessary. It all boils down to leadership, a good leader would set out the tasks and standards and say carry on, when finished report to me at the bar where I will have cold beer waiting. The SNCO's would ensure tasks done and standards maintained.....
But then the media wouldn't want to film that, far too professional and boring for them....
Also worth remembering that Kandahar provides R&R facilities for the troops in Helmand and elsewhere. They deserve the best we can provide and in my view Kandahar should be better still.
Well, I finally got round to watching the first programme.
To be honest, I can't see what all the whinges are about.
A few shots of people trying to be as 'normal' off-duty as the environment will allow - and of those who have clearly tried to make the best of their surroundings.
However, if the US wasn't there with their usual on-base facilities, I wonder how truly dreadful Bastion would then be.
The programme was obviously made for a specific audience, but I haven't seen anything which merits the mindless drivel posted on PPRuNe or 'other military websites'.
Dehydration is obviously a key concern - perhaps that's another reason to invoke the no-alcohol regime?
The 'poo pond' looks like an avoidable health hazard waiting to happen. Why on earth hasn't it been sorted out?
To be honest, I can't see what all the whinges are about.
A few shots of people trying to be as 'normal' off-duty as the environment will allow - and of those who have clearly tried to make the best of their surroundings.
However, if the US wasn't there with their usual on-base facilities, I wonder how truly dreadful Bastion would then be.
The programme was obviously made for a specific audience, but I haven't seen anything which merits the mindless drivel posted on PPRuNe or 'other military websites'.
Dehydration is obviously a key concern - perhaps that's another reason to invoke the no-alcohol regime?
The 'poo pond' looks like an avoidable health hazard waiting to happen. Why on earth hasn't it been sorted out?
Nobody could argue that all those deployed on ops (and indeed many many more who are at homebase) are there with the same aim. Some are in less tense locations (OOA in Qatar / Oman etc) but its still time away from home and people need to be able to relax in their downtime and facilities need to be available for those who can never relax at their "place of work". We (i.e the military) know that. But Joe Public may not and the last thing the MOD needs is questions from the tree huggers about how the defence budget and/or the contingency fund are being spent on troops to party. Because IMHO thats how it came across. Not all of it, granted. I don't blame the individuals because as has been pointed out you have no control how the editor and producer are going to spin your input. But Defence PR may be squirming a bit - and so they should.
The second episode, I'm sure, will be far better.....
The second episode, I'm sure, will be far better.....