Preservation of C130 K and VC10 for Future Generations
Is that likely?
I thought that Catarrah was one of those sacred cows which wasn't going to be stopped, no matter what. Has someone actually had an attack of commonsense at last?
I thought that Catarrah was one of those sacred cows which wasn't going to be stopped, no matter what. Has someone actually had an attack of commonsense at last?
The latest on Project Catara can be found here. At the present rate of progress with the A400M and FSTA, there might well be an embarrassment of ASP space for a while!
Essentially they are buses and trucks with wings. They tick no boxes for real men, only anoraked spotters. Cut them up and turn them into something more useful.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the Royal and Ancient Air Force
AR1, you're a naughty boy. Put on this pointy hat and go stand in the corner.
The Royal and Antediluvian Air Force, surely? One remembers when the Vickers Knickers were introduced by Shiny Ten and only Squadron Leaders were allowed to fly them.
Or 241 OCU, of course.
A system which didn't end until the early 1980s. One highly respected VC10 QFI who had been a Sqn Ldr for years had to revert to Flt Lt until the next promotion list came out a few months later, whereupon he became a Specialist Aircrew Sqn Ldr.
That sort of mind-numbing administrivial stupidity which does such things to loyal officers of long service is now hopefully a thing of the past......
A system which didn't end until the early 1980s. One highly respected VC10 QFI who had been a Sqn Ldr for years had to revert to Flt Lt until the next promotion list came out a few months later, whereupon he became a Specialist Aircrew Sqn Ldr.
That sort of mind-numbing administrivial stupidity which does such things to loyal officers of long service is now hopefully a thing of the past......
Yes, Him
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't want to put one on the gate too early, otherwise there may well be the unedifying sight of it being Christmas Treed to keep the others going. Still, would save on MT runs to the Saints Scrapheap Challenge.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
A taste of what could have been with a re-engine?
Guest
Posts: n/a
CATARA -
2030, will it either FSTA or A400 be in service by then?
Seriously, does anybody really expect to see either an A400 or FSTA operational within the next 10 years?
air transport and air-to-air refuelling operations up to and beyond 2030
2030, will it either FSTA or A400 be in service by then?
Seriously, does anybody really expect to see either an A400 or FSTA operational within the next 10 years?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VC-10 & C130 Museum Exhibits
Being a mere "colonial boy from down-under" I read the first post by Fed-Up with interest. In 23 years with the RAAF I was both a Ground Engineer and, for the last 12 years of my service, a Flight Engineer. I had the privelege of flying on the C130A-C130E and C130H, as well as the B707. What caught my eye with the post of Fed-Up was that having said correctly that the VC-10 and the C130 were classic designs they, combined with the professionalism of the aircrew who flew them etc etc. Nowhere in any post can I see anyone giving credit to those who maintain the aircraft. Let us not forget that without the efforts of the maintenance crews we would not have aircraft to fly.
Blacksheep:
The reason not being the undoubted majesty of the VC10, per se, but one Freddy Laker whose BUA also operated the type. Faced with the constant depletion of trained captains, the DS solution was to ban him and his acolytes from 10's crewroom. That had little or no effect as business continued in the nearby Public Houses. Retention (as much as possible) was finally assured by the mass handing out of scrapers. There was a crumb of comfort for those of us further down the food chain, ie on Ks (well OK, a lot further down), as it was the habit of Corporals allocating accommodation at the Route Hotels to pose the question: "Are you a real Squadron Leader, Sir, or simply a VC-10 Captain?". The wrong answer produced the response: "Then you'll be down the end with the rest of the crew, Sir".
One remembers when the Vickers Knickers were introduced by Shiny Ten and only Squadron Leaders were allowed to fly them.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
I must say I'm always pretty impressed by the shear noise of those howling Conways on take-off.
Look at that beauty climb.
Look at that beauty climb.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Surely not. Don't the TG1 master race carry out defuelling duties?
I don't think the Laker connection is correct. The RAF VC10 had just been introduced and as far as I remember nobody left the shiny new fleet for several years. Laker airways had only recently started with 2 Britannia 102's. I remember being told the reason for the rings of confidence was because old hairy Transport Command captains on large impersonal squadrons were not getting their fair share of promotions compared with the fighter jockeys. The MOD accountants agreed to establish a limited number of Acting Sqn Ldr posts which were to be shared around the transport squadrons. However the number conveniently covered the Comet and VC10 captains. A lot of senior Brit and Belfast Flt Lt captains were very cross about the way scrapers were allocated, blaming the AOC, who was ex Bomber Command, for favouring the ex V Force pilots who had been posted on to the VC10.
I remember an amusing incident in the Gan Blue Spitoon Crew Bar not long after the system was instigated. The CO of 99 sqn, who was on his swan song before leaving for Upavon, learned officially of his promotion on our arrival in Gan. As he didn't have a set of four ring epaulettes the Nav and I lent him our two pairs of two. Several beers later a VC 10 crew walked into the bar. The captain took one look at the improperly dressed Britannia captain and bollocked him for taking the piddle out of his ring of confidence. The following day the Group Captain positioned home on the westbound VC10, commanded by the very same (embarrassed) Acting Sqn Ldr.
I remember an amusing incident in the Gan Blue Spitoon Crew Bar not long after the system was instigated. The CO of 99 sqn, who was on his swan song before leaving for Upavon, learned officially of his promotion on our arrival in Gan. As he didn't have a set of four ring epaulettes the Nav and I lent him our two pairs of two. Several beers later a VC 10 crew walked into the bar. The captain took one look at the improperly dressed Britannia captain and bollocked him for taking the piddle out of his ring of confidence. The following day the Group Captain positioned home on the westbound VC10, commanded by the very same (embarrassed) Acting Sqn Ldr.
Not Laker Airways, brakedwell, but BUA where he presided earlier. The handouts of scrapers were, for whatever reason, confined in the main to VC10 (and Comets as you say) captains, and the explanation that I gave is as we on the MRT Squadrons understood it at the time, when VC10 (BUA) and Comet (Dan Air) recruitment by the civvies was strong. I'm gratified to learn that our outrage was shared by others on the Strat Fleets other than on VC10s and Comets. RAF mismanagement is an art that goes back over decades!
Before moving to Brize I was stationed at Bradenstoke cum Clack International from 1966 to 1970 and I can't remember any of my friends on 216 talking about leaving for Danair before the Prickett ring fiasco. The same with 10 Sqn. I'm sure the acting scraper was intended as a moral booster for Transport Command which was handled badly. I've just remembered another explanation at that time - It was to give VC10 captains more authority over stroppy Air Movements Officers.
Britannia Captains, mostly ex Hastings and Beverley, were well equipped to look after themselves!
Britannia Captains, mostly ex Hastings and Beverley, were well equipped to look after themselves!
Last edited by brakedwell; 12th Dec 2008 at 09:19.