Army - Jpa
In the Generals defence, the memo may have been done last week, but who actually wrote it - and was it at his behest, or done by an overly keen SO trying to look good?
More to the point, CINCLAND has done plenty of things since the announcement of his appointment - 99.9% of them though haven't been leaked to the press.
More to the point, CINCLAND has done plenty of things since the announcement of his appointment - 99.9% of them though haven't been leaked to the press.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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How about get all the UK Armed Forces Daily Subsistence claimed from last year, divide by the number of nights spent away = flat rate thrown into your bank account for every night that you are away. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but it all evens itself out. People I have spoken to have also gone further to suggest that they would accept slightly less money in order to do away with the dreaded JPA claims.
One of my crew recently was told that he couldn't buy a chocolate bar and claim for it and then in the same conversation told that you could only claim for what you could buy in the Mess!! Someone has to clarify this as at the moment confusion reigns. I would suggest it is not a case of fraudulent claims - although this system does encourage fraudulent behaviour - but that of not knowing what is and isn't claimable.
One of my crew recently was told that he couldn't buy a chocolate bar and claim for it and then in the same conversation told that you could only claim for what you could buy in the Mess!! Someone has to clarify this as at the moment confusion reigns. I would suggest it is not a case of fraudulent claims - although this system does encourage fraudulent behaviour - but that of not knowing what is and isn't claimable.
Clarification!!!! don't make me laugh
Join Date: Jun 2004
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The old system of getting a rate 1 was brilliant. They gave you a wad of cash which YOU decided what you spent it on. It was enough for you to get a good meal of your choosing. In addition, the system was virtually impossible to defraud (unless the person lied about being away - simple).
The military has now introduced a much more complicated system and in doing so has introduced temptation to commit fraud to those weaker people who were previously protected by the simplicity of the per diem rate.
People also feel disenfranchised because the employer is effectively telling them what to spend their entitlement on (interpretations of what the done thing is varies from base to base) and is a area open to misinterpretation.......or perhaps an allegation of fraud.
The system cost an awful lot to bring in, it must cost a fortune to audit and every time we lose a soldier, airman or matelot to a courts martial, there goes another wedge of cash it cost to train. Lets also consider the hours and hours I spend inserting the receipt information, the photocopies I have to take to keep the correct records. All of these costs are hidden. Frankly the whole process is a total waste of time for everyone in the military and presents nothing but down sides and hidden costs. The old 1771 took more time I hear the HR people say - not if you tried to put a claim in between Thurs and Monday - no access to JPA - its busy come back in 15 minutes....A TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME!!
I would much prefer a reduction of say 20% of the current rate given as a perdiem sum. It would save everyone the valuable time they need to devote to the overstretched force they are currently in and would help us all avoid having to decide what is appropriate and what is not. It would also help those with weaknesses to stay on the true path!!!!
Every other military I have come across still use per diem rates......why not us - It worked for years and then they suddenly changed it. Come on top brass. Look at the situation, realise that your plan has not worked and use your moral fibre to MAKE A SENSIBLE DECISION TO REVERSE THE CAPPED ACTUAL EXPERIMENT.
The military has now introduced a much more complicated system and in doing so has introduced temptation to commit fraud to those weaker people who were previously protected by the simplicity of the per diem rate.
People also feel disenfranchised because the employer is effectively telling them what to spend their entitlement on (interpretations of what the done thing is varies from base to base) and is a area open to misinterpretation.......or perhaps an allegation of fraud.
The system cost an awful lot to bring in, it must cost a fortune to audit and every time we lose a soldier, airman or matelot to a courts martial, there goes another wedge of cash it cost to train. Lets also consider the hours and hours I spend inserting the receipt information, the photocopies I have to take to keep the correct records. All of these costs are hidden. Frankly the whole process is a total waste of time for everyone in the military and presents nothing but down sides and hidden costs. The old 1771 took more time I hear the HR people say - not if you tried to put a claim in between Thurs and Monday - no access to JPA - its busy come back in 15 minutes....A TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME!!
I would much prefer a reduction of say 20% of the current rate given as a perdiem sum. It would save everyone the valuable time they need to devote to the overstretched force they are currently in and would help us all avoid having to decide what is appropriate and what is not. It would also help those with weaknesses to stay on the true path!!!!
Every other military I have come across still use per diem rates......why not us - It worked for years and then they suddenly changed it. Come on top brass. Look at the situation, realise that your plan has not worked and use your moral fibre to MAKE A SENSIBLE DECISION TO REVERSE THE CAPPED ACTUAL EXPERIMENT.
Scanners not supported by DII (F)? Well that's a step in the right direction isn't it....
tw@ts...
So what is one supposed to do to e-file a paper document?
(for those who haven't served at an HQ penal colony, e-filing is the latest,greatest thing in the world of accountability and organisation. The only snag being that when dealing with people outside of your organisation sometimes they're inconsiderate enough to send you something on paper, rather than electronically... Several solutions exist, the neatest of which is to scan said document and place on appropriate e-file... God I hate the year I was forced to spend at PTC....)
tw@ts...
So what is one supposed to do to e-file a paper document?
(for those who haven't served at an HQ penal colony, e-filing is the latest,greatest thing in the world of accountability and organisation. The only snag being that when dealing with people outside of your organisation sometimes they're inconsiderate enough to send you something on paper, rather than electronically... Several solutions exist, the neatest of which is to scan said document and place on appropriate e-file... God I hate the year I was forced to spend at PTC....)
Join Date: Jul 2007
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When JPA was introduced DCDS(Pers) said that any increase in allowances costs because of fraudulant claims would be offset by the savings in disestablishing allowances....
Even when we had rates and checks by allowances, fraud was rife, it certainly was on det in Italy.
Anyone remember the 40ish court martials at 2 MT Sqn in 2000/2001.
It has always gone on and always will do.
Even when we had rates and checks by allowances, fraud was rife, it certainly was on det in Italy.
Anyone remember the 40ish court martials at 2 MT Sqn in 2000/2001.
It has always gone on and always will do.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Admin Blunty,
Fraud has always happened, in that you are correct and it is certain that the occasional false rate 1 occurred. However, assuming that the basis for claiming day subsistence is valid (ie that person will be away from unit for more than 5 hours etc), the capped actual system has opened up more temptation for our personnel to commit fraud. Previously they took a rate 1 allowance and did with it as they wanted. Now there is a temptation for the weak to fraudulently self certify or to get hold of dodgy receipts. The rates system required no auditing and this issue did not even come into play as receipts did not play a part in the whole system. The sad thing is that we have failed the weaker members of our forces by giving them a system which has inherent temptation. I do not like this as it will risk bringing the armed forces into disrepute. Give us lets say £20 per day for > 5hours away done and dusted - no accountants required, fewer courts martials, much much less wasted computer time (especially waiting for terminals to come free for those on the Front Line without a system sitting on the desk (Front Line First - remember) and I mean quite serious levels of computer time with the slow JPA system we have which seems to be encountering a large number of problems at the moment.
Fraud has always happened, in that you are correct and it is certain that the occasional false rate 1 occurred. However, assuming that the basis for claiming day subsistence is valid (ie that person will be away from unit for more than 5 hours etc), the capped actual system has opened up more temptation for our personnel to commit fraud. Previously they took a rate 1 allowance and did with it as they wanted. Now there is a temptation for the weak to fraudulently self certify or to get hold of dodgy receipts. The rates system required no auditing and this issue did not even come into play as receipts did not play a part in the whole system. The sad thing is that we have failed the weaker members of our forces by giving them a system which has inherent temptation. I do not like this as it will risk bringing the armed forces into disrepute. Give us lets say £20 per day for > 5hours away done and dusted - no accountants required, fewer courts martials, much much less wasted computer time (especially waiting for terminals to come free for those on the Front Line without a system sitting on the desk (Front Line First - remember) and I mean quite serious levels of computer time with the slow JPA system we have which seems to be encountering a large number of problems at the moment.
Rumour abounds that Waddington has allowed personnel to 'self certify' the max for a JPA DS claim in a bid to reduce the paperwork burden of audits. Can anyone clarify?
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Perhaps it needs its own thread Huey?
Like the whole JPA/allowances system needs to hold national meetings between the key bases to ensure that all individuals receive the same allowances and not just a local interpretation of the rules....
For example... Describe 1 drink with your meal... Is this:
1) a half bottle of wine
2) a Large glass of anything you can pay within DS
3) A small glass of your cheapest rat Pi$$ that will leave you with bad guts for a week?
How about cheque encashment? According to QRs, we are entitled to cash up to £100 into local currency. Not so according to local regs on some bases. And there was me thinking it took an act of parliament to change QRs, not a local admin to mandate otherwise on base...
Like the whole JPA/allowances system needs to hold national meetings between the key bases to ensure that all individuals receive the same allowances and not just a local interpretation of the rules....
For example... Describe 1 drink with your meal... Is this:
1) a half bottle of wine
2) a Large glass of anything you can pay within DS
3) A small glass of your cheapest rat Pi$$ that will leave you with bad guts for a week?
How about cheque encashment? According to QRs, we are entitled to cash up to £100 into local currency. Not so according to local regs on some bases. And there was me thinking it took an act of parliament to change QRs, not a local admin to mandate otherwise on base...
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To return to the original thread, yes there may be one or two of our soldiers that do milk the system, BUT the real problem is that some of our more junior soldiers really aren't very bright, nor are they expected to be experts in allce regs. Therefore they take random guesses at what they might be entitled to and then wonder why the auditor rants at them.
