RAAF or ARMY Downunder
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RAAF or ARMY Downunder
Hello,
I've been having a bit of a look around and a read of the military forum and thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.
I've got my application in with the ADF at the moment and I'm hoping to get in to either the RAAF or Army. My file is with the guys in Tamworth now so I'm waiting for the flight screening call up.
I want them to know how keen I am and I'd like to move the process along as I'm currently doing my CPL on the side. Does anyone have any suggestions for me as to how I can improve my chances from this point on?
I would also love to know if there's any way to speed up the process... I don't want to call them too often and have them get sick of me but I also want the guys in Tamworth to understand how keen I am to get something going here.
Looking forward to any feedback you may have.
Integro
I've been having a bit of a look around and a read of the military forum and thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.
I've got my application in with the ADF at the moment and I'm hoping to get in to either the RAAF or Army. My file is with the guys in Tamworth now so I'm waiting for the flight screening call up.
I want them to know how keen I am and I'd like to move the process along as I'm currently doing my CPL on the side. Does anyone have any suggestions for me as to how I can improve my chances from this point on?
I would also love to know if there's any way to speed up the process... I don't want to call them too often and have them get sick of me but I also want the guys in Tamworth to understand how keen I am to get something going here.
Looking forward to any feedback you may have.
Integro
Don't worry about calling them too often - I know from experience that the ADF's recrutment agencies are more than a little prone to leaving things on the back burner if they possibly can. Call them, e-mail them, even write to them to remind them that you're still there - I had to do all of these and more to keep things moving.
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The wait for the FSP call up usually isn't to bad, it can be the wait to get to either OTS or RMC that can put a bit of a hold on. Darwinisms advice is spot on, calling every day is probably a bit excessive however.
You can't really speed up the process as you have been ranked (based on DFR performance rather than flying expereience) and the FSP call up depend on where you are sitting in the pile. How long has PSA had your file for?
You can't really speed up the process as you have been ranked (based on DFR performance rather than flying expereience) and the FSP call up depend on where you are sitting in the pile. How long has PSA had your file for?
You will be checked more thoroughly during FSP, as you have significant flying exp. Its probably a good idea to do some tailwheel and basic aeros before you go. I would recomend Action Aerobatics in Maitland if you can make the trip, I don't fly there but they do have the right people for that sort of thing.
Emails and letters the best way to go to chase up your app. Not to often however.
Personally, I wouldn't go Army, especially full RMC IOC or ADFA as there are major implications if you fail pilot's cse. If not RAAF then consider SSO Army Pilot.
Emails and letters the best way to go to chase up your app. Not to often however.
Personally, I wouldn't go Army, especially full RMC IOC or ADFA as there are major implications if you fail pilot's cse. If not RAAF then consider SSO Army Pilot.
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Having done the RMC thing, however luckily for me on an Aviation Cadetship, I agree with Trojan1981 on the SSO option. If you should fail Pilot's course, you do not owe the military any extra time, however through RMC you owe about 2 (or what ever the time is these days) years back.
It is nice to have exposure to the aviation environment prior to joining military, however not actually required. I joined with no experience at all and got through, while one guy who had 500hrs and CPL and other who had 200hrs, failed quite early in the course at Tamworth. In my opinion, get some experience, but remember they train you the way they want, so you need to be able to adapt to their style.
Good luck.
It is nice to have exposure to the aviation environment prior to joining military, however not actually required. I joined with no experience at all and got through, while one guy who had 500hrs and CPL and other who had 200hrs, failed quite early in the course at Tamworth. In my opinion, get some experience, but remember they train you the way they want, so you need to be able to adapt to their style.
Good luck.
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If your not sure what service you want to be in
maybe they arent either....
Anyone who is really committed to something can only see one road...
As a side issue navy retention rates are considered lacklustre
So apply Navy your sure to get in...
Cheers
RBz
maybe they arent either....
Anyone who is really committed to something can only see one road...
As a side issue navy retention rates are considered lacklustre
So apply Navy your sure to get in...
Cheers
RBz
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1st preference is RAAF however given that I'm 29 I'm not holding my breath for that one. I've told them that Army is a very close second and then Navy not far behind.
FSP have only had my details for a few days. They told me there's 20 in the pool at the moment. I know I bombed out in a couple of the tests so I don't see my file sitting very high on the pile
.
The recruitment officer asked if I'd be interested in the RMC road the aviation and I asked about the Return of Service. I can't remember how many years it was but it was too long. I want to be a pilot in the defence force but if they won't take me I'll just spend another $20-30k and finish off my CPL and get a civilian job (really really want the ADF but they can afford to be picky).
I'll lay off them for a couple of months and get stuck in to my aviation studies.
I've only got a couple of CPL exams left then I guess I could go on and do my ATPL's and if they still haven't come to the party by then bite the bullet and go pay to drive a bus.
I spoke with one of the Army Instructors the other day. He was a really nice guy and more than happy to help me out with a few pointers. Just giving me some things to get in the habbit of and to be, I guess, a little weary of with my training.
Any way thanks again for your advice.
Integro
FSP have only had my details for a few days. They told me there's 20 in the pool at the moment. I know I bombed out in a couple of the tests so I don't see my file sitting very high on the pile
.The recruitment officer asked if I'd be interested in the RMC road the aviation and I asked about the Return of Service. I can't remember how many years it was but it was too long. I want to be a pilot in the defence force but if they won't take me I'll just spend another $20-30k and finish off my CPL and get a civilian job (really really want the ADF but they can afford to be picky).
I'll lay off them for a couple of months and get stuck in to my aviation studies.
I've only got a couple of CPL exams left then I guess I could go on and do my ATPL's and if they still haven't come to the party by then bite the bullet and go pay to drive a bus.
I spoke with one of the Army Instructors the other day. He was a really nice guy and more than happy to help me out with a few pointers. Just giving me some things to get in the habbit of and to be, I guess, a little weary of with my training.
Any way thanks again for your advice.
Integro
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In all honesty most people who sign up at Defence want to be an Airforce
pilot, but what have you done to demonstrate your worthiness??
How many flying hours do you have up? have you memorised details
of the NOTAMS, just minor things but you have to put in first to show
credibility.
What is the difference between a VSI and a HSI?
Large Tattoos and prior criminal convictions have in the past been the
way out of Defence and not the way in, times are changing though.
Cheers
RBZ
pilot, but what have you done to demonstrate your worthiness??
How many flying hours do you have up? have you memorised details
of the NOTAMS, just minor things but you have to put in first to show
credibility.
What is the difference between a VSI and a HSI?
Large Tattoos and prior criminal convictions have in the past been the
way out of Defence and not the way in, times are changing though.
Cheers
RBZ
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Re Army ROSO: for an SSO it's seven years once wings are achieved and six for RMC GSO, again kicks in once you get your wings.
As for the age thing you will have to be pretty lucky/skilled to get in to the RAAF at 29. 26 is around the upper limit they are after.
As for the age thing you will have to be pretty lucky/skilled to get in to the RAAF at 29. 26 is around the upper limit they are after.
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Good luck Integro
Integro, Jimblog here. Everything has been pretty well said by the other bloggers. I think you are doing fine. I also highly recommend ACTION aeros at Maitland. You need to see if you are up to throwing an aircraft around before forging ahead with a military career.
Don't listen to any bs about having too many hours in your civilian life. For every story that someone gives about knowing someone with heaps of hours that failed in the ADF, there is another 20 stories about guys with no experience failing as well. It is, in fact, mostly about having the right attitude and NOTHING about where you come from. If you have the right attitude, kuckle down and do the work and keep your mouth shut about your previous experience you will do fine. I had 3000 hours civilian when I joined up 15 years ago. I was also on the upper age bracket like you. I had to listen to younger guys crapping on about how much of an issue it was going to be for me. Old dog new tricks etc etc. Well mate, its all about attitude. It has always been good to have a mix of guys from all different walks of life/ages and experience in the squadrons I've worked in. The guys that passed and are still flying today are the guys with the right postive ATTITUDE!
Also, don't worry about not knowing what service you want to fly in. After you have been around for a while and fly with guys from different services on operations you will see that its all pretty much the same. Just get your arse in the door whichever way you do it. Despite some bs, it is definately the most rewarding career you will have. Ask yourself this question? Do you want to sit on your arse flying a tin can between Melbourne and Sydney for 30 years OR do relief operations around the world that really make a difference. Don't expect to be rich though....
Don't listen to any bs about having too many hours in your civilian life. For every story that someone gives about knowing someone with heaps of hours that failed in the ADF, there is another 20 stories about guys with no experience failing as well. It is, in fact, mostly about having the right attitude and NOTHING about where you come from. If you have the right attitude, kuckle down and do the work and keep your mouth shut about your previous experience you will do fine. I had 3000 hours civilian when I joined up 15 years ago. I was also on the upper age bracket like you. I had to listen to younger guys crapping on about how much of an issue it was going to be for me. Old dog new tricks etc etc. Well mate, its all about attitude. It has always been good to have a mix of guys from all different walks of life/ages and experience in the squadrons I've worked in. The guys that passed and are still flying today are the guys with the right postive ATTITUDE!
Also, don't worry about not knowing what service you want to fly in. After you have been around for a while and fly with guys from different services on operations you will see that its all pretty much the same. Just get your arse in the door whichever way you do it. Despite some bs, it is definately the most rewarding career you will have. Ask yourself this question? Do you want to sit on your arse flying a tin can between Melbourne and Sydney for 30 years OR do relief operations around the world that really make a difference. Don't expect to be rich though....
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Hey JIMBLOG,
Thanks for the insight. Great to hear from some one that's actually living the dream!
RBZ I've got 50+ hours in my log book at the moment and only a couple of the CPL exams to go. So by the time I get to flight screening I'll have all my CPL exams, a PPL and possibly won't have memorised all of the NOTAMS (not sure where you are going with that one as I just check them prior to each flight).
Clean skin (no tattoos) or steel in strange places. No criminal history and a picture of health
.
Integro
Thanks for the insight. Great to hear from some one that's actually living the dream!
RBZ I've got 50+ hours in my log book at the moment and only a couple of the CPL exams to go. So by the time I get to flight screening I'll have all my CPL exams, a PPL and possibly won't have memorised all of the NOTAMS (not sure where you are going with that one as I just check them prior to each flight).
Clean skin (no tattoos) or steel in strange places. No criminal history and a picture of health
.Integro
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Hey guys I've made it to the next stage. I've now got my appointment to flight screening. Is there any where or any one that you would suggest I contact to increase my chances at FSP?
Any (serious) advice would be much appreciated.
WoooooooooooooHoooooooooooooo
Any (serious) advice would be much appreciated.
WoooooooooooooHoooooooooooooo
Jet Fighter, Warbird, Sport and Vintage Adventure Flights – Australia’s No. 1 Professionals
Good pilots (some ex RAAF/RNZAF), good aircraft.
At least give them a call and see what they say.
Good pilots (some ex RAAF/RNZAF), good aircraft.
At least give them a call and see what they say.
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Integro,
Congratulations on getting this far. I see you have already been given a lot of good advice! My flight screening a few years ago now, but thought i may have a few things to offer.
You only have 2 weeks to show what you have to offer. Work hard, always be seen to be working hard. As far as flying goes, prep your flights, spend hours chair flying, sitting there visualizing how you will do a particular manouvre, in what order you will do things, where you will look at what times. Basically fly the sortie in your head over and over, and i guarantee you will perform better! Remember that they are teaching you, so do everything possible to learn as much as you can from each flight. Take a note book into your debriefs and take notes, you will get told how you did a lot of things badly, welcome to military flying! This is how we learn and improve, by accepting the fact that you will suck at things, taking the feedback on how we can improve, going away and re prepping it, to hopefully fix it by the next flight. How can i do it better for tomorrows flight?
Remember also to fly EXACTLY the way they teach you, don't let old habits creep in!
As far as the OSB is concerned, just be confident. Learn as much about the Service you are interested in as possible, you can never know too much!
Remember, Prep is Key, work hard! Trust me, it is definately worth it when you get those wings pinned on your chest!
Congratulations on getting this far. I see you have already been given a lot of good advice! My flight screening a few years ago now, but thought i may have a few things to offer.
You only have 2 weeks to show what you have to offer. Work hard, always be seen to be working hard. As far as flying goes, prep your flights, spend hours chair flying, sitting there visualizing how you will do a particular manouvre, in what order you will do things, where you will look at what times. Basically fly the sortie in your head over and over, and i guarantee you will perform better! Remember that they are teaching you, so do everything possible to learn as much as you can from each flight. Take a note book into your debriefs and take notes, you will get told how you did a lot of things badly, welcome to military flying! This is how we learn and improve, by accepting the fact that you will suck at things, taking the feedback on how we can improve, going away and re prepping it, to hopefully fix it by the next flight. How can i do it better for tomorrows flight?
Remember also to fly EXACTLY the way they teach you, don't let old habits creep in!
As far as the OSB is concerned, just be confident. Learn as much about the Service you are interested in as possible, you can never know too much!
Remember, Prep is Key, work hard! Trust me, it is definately worth it when you get those wings pinned on your chest!
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Thanks so much for the advice everyone.
I've been out for an Aerobatics flight just to get the feel of being inverted and to get a little more comfortable with strange attitude flying.
The owner of my flight school suggested that it's a waste of money going out and doing more aerobatics training as FSP is not about how good you are (when you get there) but how fast you learn. So I'll save my hard earned money for now.
Very concerned about the OSB. I'm trying to finish of my damn CPL's so I can focus on study for the OSB. Does any one have any tips for OSB study?
I've been out for an Aerobatics flight just to get the feel of being inverted and to get a little more comfortable with strange attitude flying.
The owner of my flight school suggested that it's a waste of money going out and doing more aerobatics training as FSP is not about how good you are (when you get there) but how fast you learn. So I'll save my hard earned money for now.
Very concerned about the OSB. I'm trying to finish of my damn CPL's so I can focus on study for the OSB. Does any one have any tips for OSB study?
Not really something you can study for. The group activity is the same sort of thing they do in selection for other jobs (everyone wants to be cheif
).
The board interview is really about checking your motivation and dedication. I don't mean to sound patronising but it is one thing to want to be a Pilot and quite another to be prepared to go through what is required to get there.
Quite a few people (particularly slightly older people who have a different perspective on life or married members with families) decide that the end goal is not worth the cost and remove themselves from the cse (I am not talking about failures). Natrually they don't want this to happen so expect to be grilled on that to the nth degree. The cse is VERY hard on MWD members.
).The board interview is really about checking your motivation and dedication. I don't mean to sound patronising but it is one thing to want to be a Pilot and quite another to be prepared to go through what is required to get there.
Quite a few people (particularly slightly older people who have a different perspective on life or married members with families) decide that the end goal is not worth the cost and remove themselves from the cse (I am not talking about failures). Natrually they don't want this to happen so expect to be grilled on that to the nth degree. The cse is VERY hard on MWD members.
it isn't really a problem just fly it how they want it flown, flying is still flying they just do things slightly different.
You put it so simply. Some people on here seem to get really wound up about that.
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Dmcleod-
Nearly but not quite corect about the Navy aircrew numbers- granted numbers are greatly down on for the next couple of years but definately not cut. The backlog inthe training system is a lot further down the 'pipeline' and is slowly clearing...
The pilots being asked if they want to swap are at the post BFTS or 2FTS stages. I think there were a few posts on Prune about that a few months ago- happy searching.
Nearly but not quite corect about the Navy aircrew numbers- granted numbers are greatly down on for the next couple of years but definately not cut. The backlog inthe training system is a lot further down the 'pipeline' and is slowly clearing...
The pilots being asked if they want to swap are at the post BFTS or 2FTS stages. I think there were a few posts on Prune about that a few months ago- happy searching.
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The words of wisdom I was given before pilot course that were borne out in practice (although that was a few years ago!) They should also have some application at flight screening.
Don't try to impress your instructor with your flying prowess (eg look how good my aeros are!) They will give you very specific instruction on what is required for each flight and the techniques to be used. Concentrate on showing that you have studied for each flight, can carry out the sequences as briefed using the taught techniques, and can keep up with the learning rate.
Study each night Sun through Thurs and prepare one to two flights ahead. Don't get behind on the study as you will never catch up. (More important for pilot course than screening as it goes for such a long time)
Go to the bar on Friday arvo and interact with your instructors in a social environment.
Take one day off a week and do something non-flying related. This is a marathon not a sprint. If you stay just above the learning curve you will pass. If you climb steeply then plateau you will plough into the learning curve at speed and fail.
And a final tip for the board. Read 'The Australian' each day and be able to talk with some confidence about current events. The services are still looking for officers not just pilots and expect that you have an understanding of the wider world.
Don't try to impress your instructor with your flying prowess (eg look how good my aeros are!) They will give you very specific instruction on what is required for each flight and the techniques to be used. Concentrate on showing that you have studied for each flight, can carry out the sequences as briefed using the taught techniques, and can keep up with the learning rate.
Study each night Sun through Thurs and prepare one to two flights ahead. Don't get behind on the study as you will never catch up. (More important for pilot course than screening as it goes for such a long time)
Go to the bar on Friday arvo and interact with your instructors in a social environment.
Take one day off a week and do something non-flying related. This is a marathon not a sprint. If you stay just above the learning curve you will pass. If you climb steeply then plateau you will plough into the learning curve at speed and fail.
And a final tip for the board. Read 'The Australian' each day and be able to talk with some confidence about current events. The services are still looking for officers not just pilots and expect that you have an understanding of the wider world.
