Air Forces Monthly: Is the Tornado Up to it?

[Wrathmonk]

Pontious

Come April the Harrier force reverts to being able to conduct its full range of tasks that may be required of it in a future conflict. This includes the need to be able to conduct operations from the carriers. The Tornado can undertake both theatres so why not make best use of your full range of capabilities for a war whilst also ensuring success in the wars. If assets that are not being used on the war are to take a capability holiday then why are the E3s still flying? In fact, lets go the whole hog - shut down all the training units, put the instructors back on the front line (particularly the rotary mates), retrain the studes as Rock Apes until we have won in Irag and Afg, ignore the future and pick up the pieces when we've won. In the meantime we'll just cross our fingers nothing else is required ....

This is becoming nothing more than a pro-Carrier vs anti-Carrier pi55ing contest. I'm sure the Harrier mates who are actually doing the job are quite looking forward to a break from ops and I suspect a lot of rotary mates are quite jealous.

pba_target

Understand that to be the case but a shame they have to leave the Service they joined (although in years gone by some dark blue have done ab-initio "exchange" tours with Tonka squadrons prior to returning to the SHAR/JFH). And have to say what a waste of training for the RN up until then. Not advocating a joint armed forces a la Canadian experiment but there must be a more efficient way of putting bums on the front line seats.

[whowhenwhy]

The other side of the coin is that I've heard some serious noises that I'm afraid makes the last 2 pages of the thread irrelevant. Something about money, saving now to pay later.... Bad news ahead I'm afraid chaps.

[Thelma Viaduct]

How much of a drama would it be to put an IR seeker on Brimstone & integrate it on Tornado? I don't think the 'terrorists' have too many tank target sets for the mmW jobbie.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Wrathmonk

Come April the Harrier force reverts to being able to conduct its full range of tasks that may be required of it in a future conflict. This includes the need to be able to conduct operations from the carriers.

Remembering the notorious 'no war for 5 years' rule, how soon would you anticipate a future war? Next year, 2010? 2012? If you can afford the insurance policy, fine. If not then what do you do? Put out the house fire today and consider insurance when you have rebuilt the house?

If assets that are not being used on the war are to take a capability holiday then why are the E3s still flying?

True.

In fact, lets go the whole hog - shut down all the training units, put the instructors back on the front line (particularly the rotary mates), retrain the studes as Rock Apes until we have won in Irag and Afg, ignore the future and pick up the pieces when we've won. In the meantime we'll just cross our fingers nothing else is required ....

This last in nonsense and a hang over from the Cold War. It was only valid where a hot war was predicated to last a matter of days before becoming incandescent. We realised that we must maintain the training machine 20 years ago. I would guess half the Army has turned over since the Balkans, perhaps more recently.

Until we have won . . . mmmmmmm

This is becoming nothing more than a pro-Carrier vs anti-Carrier pi55ing contest.

Not at all, more a question of budgets. Why is that other sacred cow, Dii/f, which is the same ball park cost as two QE-class not being mentioned?

And have to say what a waste of training for the RN up until then.

No training is wasted. There are many light blue billets that would benefit from the training delivered at BRNC. I still remember my Army training and have been able to put some to good use even many years later.

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

Makes perfect sense to rotate aircrew and airframes through an operational theatre and I don't believe there is a loss in capabilities, rather a slight change in capabilities: what you loss in one area, you gain in another.

We all know the rumours exist that NSW will be chopped or indeed, the entire Harrier force. If the whole force goes, I think it safe to say the carriers are doomed, certainly wrt to planned size and probably doomed completely.

If the NSW goes, well, what is wrong with the RAF providing fixed wing assets for carriers?

I don't think we need carriers at all. A nicety, not an operational necessity. The last time carriers had a decisive effect was in 1982. But they remain largely on scedule so lets make it work

[Once A Brat]

I'm not sure but.....................

................I'm fairly certain that when I was at the home of the Norfolk Land Shark circa 03/04 that one of the Squadrons (IX) had a dark blue stick monkey!!

Thought that with common training that it was now best pilot for the type rather due to the cut of your cloth.........I also seem to recall a Capt (No, not a yank either) pilot on JFH but there agin he may have been a bootie.....

Having experience of both ac types (from an EngO perspective) ...the Tonka will struggle in Herrick and will be a sucess, but only whilst its the will of the people (air and groundcrews) on the force to make it so ...........just like the air and groundcrews made Harrier suceed.

[airborne_artist]

I also seem to recall a Capt (No, not a yank either) pilot on JFH

Guaranteed to be a Bootie - no chance that a Captain RN would be on a squadron.

[Once A Brat]

Actually AA I was aluding to the fact that he may have been AAC........someting to do with having 3 pips rather that lots of gold piping........in a flying suit he had Sqn patches where I would normally expect to see a dagger if he were a boot!

so glad I stayed awake in rank recognition class all those years ago !

[LateArmLive]

Yes, he was (and still is!) a swamping, cross-dressing bootneck.