Cat 5 Question
(a bear of little brain)
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Cat 5 Question
Trying to find out if damage categories have changed any time over the last few (will, probably 30) years. The reason is I got an e-mail from a mate who is ex-RAF but been out a long time (would ask t'Lad but it's tricky getting hold of him sometimes):-
'Started talking to a guy who claimed to have flown in the RAF. Something was wrong. I asked him how he would enjoy flying a Cat 5 plane. He said he didn't know modern categories for aircraft (much younger than me), but how many engines did this category have?
I'm an old fart and perhaps Cat 5 doesn't mean scrap these days.
Could you or X throw some light on this?'
Sounds like a rock-solid Walt to me, but if someone can confirm the Cat thing I would be grateful.
'Started talking to a guy who claimed to have flown in the RAF. Something was wrong. I asked him how he would enjoy flying a Cat 5 plane. He said he didn't know modern categories for aircraft (much younger than me), but how many engines did this category have?
I'm an old fart and perhaps Cat 5 doesn't mean scrap these days.
Could you or X throw some light on this?'
Sounds like a rock-solid Walt to me, but if someone can confirm the Cat thing I would be grateful.
The definition has indeed changed. It is now;
“Category 5 – Scrap, but carry on flying, try not to bend it any more, we’re introducing a few modifications, changing the designator and will pretend it’s a new aircraft”.
I jest, but truth is often stranger than fiction.
“Category 5 – Scrap, but carry on flying, try not to bend it any more, we’re introducing a few modifications, changing the designator and will pretend it’s a new aircraft”.
I jest, but truth is often stranger than fiction.
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The bright boys in the DE&S Air Environment are currently doing away with numbered repair categories, to be replaced by different descriptions of in-depth repair (formerly 2 - 4). In the Maritime Environment, though, Cat 5 remains a one way ticket to the knacker's yard. I expect we'll also be dumbed-down in due course.
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There are currently many different types of CAT 5. All of which can be found in the public domain. Obviously some are used more than others!
5 (PROV)
The aircraft is considered beyond economic repair.
5 (COMP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
5 (GI)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is suitable for ground instructional use.
5 (SCRAP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, and is fit for scrap or disposal only.
5 (MISSING)
The aircraft is missing from a flight
Hope this helps.
5 (PROV)
The aircraft is considered beyond economic repair.
5 (COMP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
5 (GI)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is suitable for ground instructional use.
5 (SCRAP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, and is fit for scrap or disposal only.
5 (MISSING)
The aircraft is missing from a flight
Hope this helps.
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5 (COMP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
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VinRougeQuote:
5 (COMP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
I always thought you couldn't recover parts from a destroyed aircraft, due to CAA/FAA regs?
5 (COMP)
The aircraft is beyond economic repair, or is surplus, but is recoverable for breakdown to components and spare parts.
I always thought you couldn't recover parts from a destroyed aircraft, due to CAA/FAA regs?
I quote from http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP562.PDF
Leaflet 11-28 Return to Service of Aircraft Items Recovered
from Aircraft Involved in Accidents/Incidents
from Aircraft Involved in Accidents/Incidents
(Previously issued as AN 97)
NOTE:
For the purpose of this Leaflet the term 'items' includes all components, parts,
engines and accessories.
engines and accessories.
1 Introduction
1.1 This Leaflet reviews the factors involved in establishing the acceptability of aircraft
items recovered from aircraft involved in accidents/incidents, and states the
conditions to be met before such items may be returned to service.
1.2 This Leaflet applies to aircraft designated as falling under Annex II to Regulation EC
1592/2002. These are known as non-EASA aircraft and come under the regulatory
control of the Civil Aviation Authority and are issued with National Certificates of
Airworthiness and Permits to Fly. It does not apply to EASA type certificated aircraft,
which are covered by requirements defined in Part 145 and Part M.
1.3 The Civil Aviation Authority has evidence that some aircraft items, (including highly
stressed rotating parts) have been released to service after having been recovered
from aircraft involved in accidents/incidents even though the accident circumstances
may have caused damage or changed characteristics from those of the type design.
Since such items may not manifest any visual evidence of damage, distortion or
changed characteristics, a serious airworthiness hazard could result from their use
without special precautions being taken as detailed in this Leaflet.
items recovered from aircraft involved in accidents/incidents, and states the
conditions to be met before such items may be returned to service.
1.2 This Leaflet applies to aircraft designated as falling under Annex II to Regulation EC
1592/2002. These are known as non-EASA aircraft and come under the regulatory
control of the Civil Aviation Authority and are issued with National Certificates of
Airworthiness and Permits to Fly. It does not apply to EASA type certificated aircraft,
which are covered by requirements defined in Part 145 and Part M.
1.3 The Civil Aviation Authority has evidence that some aircraft items, (including highly
stressed rotating parts) have been released to service after having been recovered
from aircraft involved in accidents/incidents even though the accident circumstances
may have caused damage or changed characteristics from those of the type design.
Since such items may not manifest any visual evidence of damage, distortion or
changed characteristics, a serious airworthiness hazard could result from their use
without special precautions being taken as detailed in this Leaflet.
NOTE:
The subject of this Leaflet was first promulgated to industry by a CAA Letter to
Operators Number 461 (revised to LTO 461/A on the 18 December 1981), following
informal consultation with industry and with aviation insurers.
Operators Number 461 (revised to LTO 461/A on the 18 December 1981), following
informal consultation with industry and with aviation insurers.
2 Establishing Origin of Recovered Items
2.1 When an aircraft has been involved in an accident/incident, the title to the salvage
may pass from the insured owner to other persons (e.g. aircraft insurers) and this
salvage may be offered for sale either complete or as separate aircraft items in an 'as
is - where is' condition. While some items may be totally unaffected by the accident/
incident which caused the aircraft to be declared as salvage, it is essential to obtain
clear evidence that this is the case. If such evidence cannot be obtained, the item may
not be returned to service.
2.2 All such items must therefore be subject to competent assessment and inspection in
the light of adequate knowledge of the circumstances of the accident, subsequent
storage and transport conditions, and with evidence of previous operational history
obtained from valid airworthiness records, before overhaul and re-installation can be
considered.
2.3 In particular, if a crash load is sufficient to take any part above its proof strength,
residual strains may remain which could reduce the effective strength of the item or
otherwise impair its functioning. Loads higher than this may of course crack the item,
with an even more dangerous potential. Further, a reduction in strength may be
caused by virtue of the change of a material’s characteristics following overheat from
may pass from the insured owner to other persons (e.g. aircraft insurers) and this
salvage may be offered for sale either complete or as separate aircraft items in an 'as
is - where is' condition. While some items may be totally unaffected by the accident/
incident which caused the aircraft to be declared as salvage, it is essential to obtain
clear evidence that this is the case. If such evidence cannot be obtained, the item may
not be returned to service.
2.2 All such items must therefore be subject to competent assessment and inspection in
the light of adequate knowledge of the circumstances of the accident, subsequent
storage and transport conditions, and with evidence of previous operational history
obtained from valid airworthiness records, before overhaul and re-installation can be
considered.
2.3 In particular, if a crash load is sufficient to take any part above its proof strength,
residual strains may remain which could reduce the effective strength of the item or
otherwise impair its functioning. Loads higher than this may of course crack the item,
with an even more dangerous potential. Further, a reduction in strength may be
caused by virtue of the change of a material’s characteristics following overheat from
27 March 2008
CAP 562 Civil Aircraft Airworthiness Information and Procedures
Part 11 Leaflet 11-28 Page 2
CAP 562 Civil Aircraft Airworthiness Information and Procedures
Part 11 Leaflet 11-28 Page 2
a fire. It is therefore of the utmost importance to establish that the item is neither
cracked, distorted nor overheated. The degree of distortion may be difficult to assess
if the precise original dimensions are not known, in which case there is no option but
to reject the item. Any suggestion of overheating would be cause for a laboratory
investigation into significant change of material properties.
2.4 The standard procedures appropriate to items removed for overhaul following normal
service life may not therefore be sufficient for items from salvaged aircraft. If the
information in the Manufacturer’s Manual, or other technical publications, is
insufficient to deal with the considerations detailed above then the manufacturer
must be consulted for guidance. If the manufacturer provides the additional
information, and the item can be shown to meet this, then it may be returned to
service.
2.5 Where a difficulty exists in classifying the airworthiness significance of an aircraft
item recovered after an accident/incident, the question should be referred to the CAA
Airworthiness Division, Survey Department, for advice. The CAA will require full
details of the circumstances of the accident/incident before a response is made to the
enquiry.
2.6 It should be noted that UK licensed engineers or CAA Approved Organisations cannot
inspect components or assess the implications of impact damage or fatigue without
the involvement of the manufacturer or a CAA Approved Design Organisation if the
existing approved data for the aircraft type does not provide appropriate and specific
inspections. The component can only be released in accordance with approved data,
reference BCAR Section A6-2 and CAP 562 Leaflet No. 15-2.
cracked, distorted nor overheated. The degree of distortion may be difficult to assess
if the precise original dimensions are not known, in which case there is no option but
to reject the item. Any suggestion of overheating would be cause for a laboratory
investigation into significant change of material properties.
2.4 The standard procedures appropriate to items removed for overhaul following normal
service life may not therefore be sufficient for items from salvaged aircraft. If the
information in the Manufacturer’s Manual, or other technical publications, is
insufficient to deal with the considerations detailed above then the manufacturer
must be consulted for guidance. If the manufacturer provides the additional
information, and the item can be shown to meet this, then it may be returned to
service.
2.5 Where a difficulty exists in classifying the airworthiness significance of an aircraft
item recovered after an accident/incident, the question should be referred to the CAA
Airworthiness Division, Survey Department, for advice. The CAA will require full
details of the circumstances of the accident/incident before a response is made to the
enquiry.
2.6 It should be noted that UK licensed engineers or CAA Approved Organisations cannot
inspect components or assess the implications of impact damage or fatigue without
the involvement of the manufacturer or a CAA Approved Design Organisation if the
existing approved data for the aircraft type does not provide appropriate and specific
inspections. The component can only be released in accordance with approved data,
reference BCAR Section A6-2 and CAP 562 Leaflet No. 15-2.
3 Information obtained from Aviation Insurers
3.1 Aviation insurers and other persons who obtain title to salvage parts may supply to
salvage purchasers the details of the accident/incident leading to the aircraft, or
aircraft item, being declared as salvage. It is also common practice for aviation
insurers to pass over the airworthiness records to the salvage purchaser. Whilst such
information and records are an essential part of the assessment, where return to
service is being considered, they are not a guarantee that the item is acceptable for
re-installation.
3.2 Some aviation insurers have agreed to co-operate with the CAA’s attempt to prevent
items being returned to service if their airworthiness cannot be confidently confirmed.
They have agreed to supply details of the occurrence, and to identify the party to
whom the salvage has been sold, to the Airworthiness Division, Application and
Approvals Department. This information may be relevant when CAA advice is sought
under paragraph 2.5 of this Leaflet, but does not excuse the enquirer from furnishing
the information required by that paragraph.
salvage purchasers the details of the accident/incident leading to the aircraft, or
aircraft item, being declared as salvage. It is also common practice for aviation
insurers to pass over the airworthiness records to the salvage purchaser. Whilst such
information and records are an essential part of the assessment, where return to
service is being considered, they are not a guarantee that the item is acceptable for
re-installation.
3.2 Some aviation insurers have agreed to co-operate with the CAA’s attempt to prevent
items being returned to service if their airworthiness cannot be confidently confirmed.
They have agreed to supply details of the occurrence, and to identify the party to
whom the salvage has been sold, to the Airworthiness Division, Application and
Approvals Department. This information may be relevant when CAA advice is sought
under paragraph 2.5 of this Leaflet, but does not excuse the enquirer from furnishing
the information required by that paragraph.
4 Supplementary Information
4.1 Attention is drawn to CAP 562 Leaflets 1-6 and 11-45 which also deal with the
safeguards necessary for users obtaining aircraft parts in the open market, particularly
in relation to the release documentation and evidence of previous history.safeguards necessary for users obtaining aircraft parts in the open market, particularly
(a bear of little brain)
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Thank you gentleman, I shall pass on the information.
(As to the 'may do another trip' my mate was an engineer as well as a pilot so would know more than me about that).
(As to the 'may do another trip' my mate was an engineer as well as a pilot so would know more than me about that).
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All damage repair categories (including Cat 5) can be found in JAP100A-01 Chapter 9.13.1 available on the internet. Link below:
Joint Air Publication
Joint Air Publication
