Telegraph Campaign For Bomber Command Memorial

[Hugh Spencer]

Maybe I can inject some ideas into this discussion as myself and my elder brother were actually involved in BCs campaign. The Nazis were ruthless. Every day we heard about terrible atrocities and beastialty carried out by their willing enthusiasts. BC had already helped Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain, a fact which many people don't know about. Something had to be done to prevent the Nazis from re-equipping the Luftwaffe and it all happen again. Bomber Command, at that time was the only answer. As young men we knew we were going to be called up and we chose a service which, although more attractive and different, we thought could deal knockout blows to the huge monster roaming the continent. The last thing we wanted was to be overrun by the Nazis. All young men knew that it was now or never, even though our lives could be lost. There was no alternative. The general public were overjoyed by the fact that the Nazis were going to get some of their own medicine. They eagerly listened to the radio about the previous nights bombers going out to attack. They cheered, they smiled and it all appeared to give them hope. It was all ghastly and horrible. Anybody who initiates a war is mad; it is a terrible way to behave but that was the only method we had. Talking was out of the question because Hitler, like so many other mad leaders since, had no intention in keeping any pacts that were made. I and my brother survived and I have been on this campaign since I retired 27 years ago.

[arandcee]

Hugh - I've only recently been researching a relative of mine who was a Canadian navigator on Halifaxes and, sadly, did not survive the war. I can't tell him how proud I am of him so I can, instead, thank you for your bravery and courage.

As for the memorial - well over due.

[Brewster Buffalo]

"Campaigners have won the struggle to raise funds for a £2million memorial in Regent's Park to honour the 55,000 who lost their lives during the war. "

Wouldn't it be better devoting these funds to the families of our military personnel killed or injured in the current campaigns?

Surely the statue of Arthur Harris can serve as a memorial for those who took part in the campaign.

[VinRouge]

Buffalo, this is a memorial that is over 60 years late.

If the government can afford to piss 500 billion up the wall to rescue corrupt banks, I am sure they can afford the equivalent of a few bob down the bottom of the sofa to do what they should be doing and providing the lads with adequate post-conflict treatment, be that physical or mental. It shouldn't even be up to charities.

[Chugalug2]

Forget:

Does the Bomber Command Association agree with this?

Not only do they agree, Forget, they have given it their moral support. Their Secretary, himself one of Harris's "Old Lags", accepted an invitation to visit Bicester. Shown the Watch Tower, he insisted on climbing to the very top, via its tightly wound spiral stairs to look out over the airfield (grass as you say, most were for a great deal of the war). He simply looked out in quiet contemplation, taken back as he said so many years. He was most moved though when taken to the opposite side of the airfield. The original Bomb Stores are there, together with the ancillary buildings such as the Fusing Huts. A peaceful country scene with some birds singing. "I've never known it to be so quiet", he said, "These were always such noisy and busy places!"
The BCA is obviously preoccupied now with the London Memorial, and the country one must wait its turn. In the meantime there is much to be done. BCH needs volunteers to help prepare for this inspiring project. The PPRuNe thread re Bicester is at:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...-bicester.html
BCHs site is at:
Our Journey Together - Bomber Command Heritage Website
You can register your support there, or PM me if you prefer.

[Al R]

Brewster: Wouldn't it be better devoting these funds to the families of our military personnel killed or injured in the current campaigns?

It needn't be an either/or. People will always support what they think appropriate and I am not being disrespectful to the memories of those who suffer in Iraq or Afghanistan (or the folk of Dresden) but the Bomber campaign was so bloody, fought so far away.. and at night that one of the reasons it has taken so long to be recognised is because it hasn't had the profile. Over 55,000 dead means that it has earned its right to be remembered in its own right - by contrast, we have lost 'just' 16,000 since the end of World War Two.

I would be sickened if anyone thought I was producing league tables and saying that one life was more important than another, but those figures put the sacrifice into perspective. On a connected note, Princess Anne is unveiling a memorial today and the son of SAC Gary Thompson RAF Regt is conducting a reading. His dad would be very proud of him.

BBC NEWS | UK | Princess Royal to unveil memorial

Chuggers; good man - stick with it.

[cazatou]

Doctor Cruces

"the whole of the effort, bomber support et al"

Perhaps they should call it the "Aircrew Europe Star"??

[Hipper]

What is the purpose of a memorial, or a campaign medal?

I ask because I don't need a memorial to appreciate the sacrifices of other generations. I've read about them, seen tv programmes on them, and in the case of Bomber Command, am proud that my father flew a tour of thirty ops with them.

I also know that my father, and his wife, were not in the least interested in medals or memorials.

I'd rather we move on and have our own thoughts on the matter, and let others have theirs without forcing the issue.

I suppose I'm wrong?!!!

[Al R]

What about in 50/75/100/150 years time Hipper?

Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do.

[S'land]

S'land,

I don't know where you get your figure of "max 25000 Civilian German casualties from bombing" during WW2 came from.

Sorry, but I misread the post before mine. Over the last couple of months I have been accosted by a number of idiots (British, I am afraid) who on learning that I am English and choose to live in Germany assume that I am pro Hitler/fascist. They then start to harangue me with the 'Dresden Massacre" and quote 500 to 600.000 deaths. I guess that I have just become over sensitive and somewhat defensive when I hear these figures. I was referring to the Dresden bombings only.

Having said that, I do believe that a memorial should bear the names of the 55.000 members of Bomber Command who were killed in action and not any victims. This should be a memorial to those who paid the ultimate price for the freedoms that we enjoy.

[cockney steve]

[QUOTE][Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do./QUOTE]

Sadly, it appears judging by post-WW2 conflicts, that "learning" is not on the agenda of politicians.

If there were no military volunteers and conscripts refused to cooperate, there'd be no wars.

All politicians with scores to settle , should be put in an arena with sufficient hand-launched missiles to settle it. The general public would pay for entry to this spectacle and maybe purchase decaying fruit/vegetables to hurl at the combatants.

back on subject....those who have known, or are related, or have been/are in the "business " (military) want to honour their comrades.
Those of us who are here because of their gallantry and self-sacrifice, owe this token of respect, this pitiful memorial.

As has been noted, greedy "bankers" have cleared out the tills of vastly larger sums that this...they wouldn't have had the opportunity to trouser these fortunes without those sacrifices .
How many of THEM have even given a moment's thought to the ramifications of the "poppy day" that once a year inconveniences them.


There are many injustices on many levels. I hope your objective is achieved.

[Lister Noble]

Guardian

I'm not in the military ,but am a private pilot.
There is much support for this memorial in the Guardian editorial today.
I live in East Anglia and without the actions of the RAF bomber command I'm sure that the way of life around here would be a lot different.
We must not forget that the US Army Airforce also had terrible losses, but there is a memorial to them at each of the airfields they flew from during WW2,and these are visited regularly by the remining aircrew and also by their younger relations.
The loss of RAF bomber aircrew life was horrendous,and without doubt the proposed memorial will remind future generations just how much we owe those young men.
I visit by car or fly into the remains of old WW2 airfields,often being the only person there, and the feeling of what happened all those years ago is almost something you can touch.
Lister

[Hipper]

What about in 50/75/100/150 years time Hipper?

Of course that is the real point of a memorial I suppose. I'm moved when I look at the WW1 memorials in most towns. However, I'm not sure one memorial, in London presumably, will achieve much. I guess there are other monuments to sacrifices of other units but I can't recall ever seeing them.

The best memorial to Bomber Command is the flying Lancaster. It won't go on for ever but the sight and sound of the Lanc effects a whole range of people as it crosses the country. Other memorials are museum displays, books and films, and grave stones throughout Europe. Finally there are the archives at Kew and other places. That's not to mention Runnymede.

For me that's enough for now and the future.

Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do.

Agreed. Unfortunately it's human nature to sometimes not learn from the mistakes of others. Surely though, the mistake in this case was appeasement in the 1930's, or perhaps even the Versaille Treaty. I can't see a memorial to Bomber Command changing that.

Anyway, if there is a lesson to be learned from Bomber Command's efforts in WW2 it is that the bomber cannot alone win the war. This lesson has still not been learned. But that's another matter!

I should stress, I have nothing but admiration for the aircrew of Bomber Command. I've read a fair bit on the subject and will still never grasp what it was like to be in a bomber at night over Germany in WW2. And I'm glad I can't.

[The Adjutant]

I for one am all in favour of the memorial. My personal view is that this is well overdue. The boys of Bomber Command were doing their job as sent down from their commanders, and they did it well. They knew the losses, but they kept on with the job, in 42/43 there was often no end in sight, but they still kept on none the less. Part of my family was in a German occupied European country throughout the war and they have told me of the hope and moral support they obtained by the noise of our bombers flying over night after night. That alone kept them going when food was short and they dare not leave the house for risk of being picked up and sent away for forced labour.
I see little difference in killing 100,000 Germans over a long period by dropping 1000 lb bombs on them and killing the same number of Japs in one atomic explosion, except that the atomic bomb was more efficient. From my point of view what was done to Dresden was a valid act of war, and should have been done elsewhere in Germany as often as possible. There is no shame on the boys of Bomber Command for doing what they had to do, in fact they should be given all the medals we can produce, and those still alive be given huge pensions and treated like the heros they are.

[VinRouge]

Anyone wanting to put the scale of losses into perspective needs to look at Linton's small museum to the Canadian and other commonwealth bomber crews; one picture is burned into my memory; an entire station annual photograph with red crosses through the faces of everyone bar about 1% on the photo.

It was taken early on in the 40's; I just cant see how these young lads could climb into their aircraft, time after time, bearing in mind how futile it must have seemed at the time.

Truly horrendous times. And ones that certainly must not be forgot.

[Al R]

The Adj said: I for one am all in favour of the memorial. My personal view is that this is well overdue. The boys of Bomber Command were doing their job as sent down from their commanders, and they did it well. They knew the losses, but they kept on with the job.

Agreed.

The irony is that the Bicester campaign to remember our aircrews and groundcrews was started by some civvies (and I don't mean that in anything other than a tone of admiration). They have held their focus for longer than most and when we go there one day (hopefully) to remember the sacrifice of our servicemen, we should be grateful for their efforts. They haven't allowed themselves to be deviated and their quiet and methodical single minded focus on Bomber Command's behalf is an example for us. This is their website:

Our Journey Together - Bomber Command Heritage Website

"Doing what we can.. to remember all those that gave so much for the British and Commonwealth effort during World War II".