is this worthy leadership?
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is this worthy leadership?
todays independent on sunday reveals the true wages and perks of Sir Jock Stirrup. hope youhavehad your breakfast as it makes sickening reading, it also makes it obvious why this man is still in post.
i'm afraid i'm not clever enough to put in the link.
i'm afraid i'm not clever enough to put in the link.
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it is the men and women on the frontline who work hard to make the armed services the finest in the world it sickens me that their families don't get the same perks. it seems that along with chauffeurs and waitresses school fees also get refunded by up to 90%. 
in the wake of all the inquests verdicts and failure to equip or fund the service properly and the shambles that are constituted as living quarters, this information sickens me.
it is you all that deserve these perks, it is you that make the service what it is. one of the finest in the world.
keep the faith!
in the wake of all the inquests verdicts and failure to equip or fund the service properly and the shambles that are constituted as living quarters, this information sickens me.
it is you all that deserve these perks, it is you that make the service what it is. one of the finest in the world.
keep the faith!
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He's CDS, for f***'s sake. Do you expect to get quality leadership for the salary of a MacDonald's senior manager?
A senior Air Commodore gets £90,000.
£225,000 per year is a big differential - and I do wonder where the pay really leaps, but it still doesn't sound that much, to me.
A senior Air Commodore gets £90,000.
£225,000 per year is a big differential - and I do wonder where the pay really leaps, but it still doesn't sound that much, to me.
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In my experience, particularly in the last few years, I've noticed a steady decline in altruism and moral courage, in favour of a culture of pension-chasing, particularly but not exclusively from the officer corps - obviously the higher rank you achieve, the better the end pension. Regrettably, I think this has also nurtured toxic by-products of, particularly, short-termism, but also encouraged middle managers to say 'yes' too often, when 'no' would sometimes be the better option.
Moreover, when we have the ability to do so - ie. when not getting shot at - we still haven't learnt that (even heated) debate can be a useful management tool, instead we choose to label detractors as troublesome, at the same time reinforcing the status quo that rank=best idea. Sir Jock and his buddies are simply leading by example, in a RAF that the press may one day describe as 'institutionally self-serving'.
The overall damage is immeasurable, yet tangible on a daily basis - next time the boss walks in, issues a diktat that flies in the face of efficiency/common sense/reality etc. and nobody fields a question when given the opportunity, you just experienced pension blindness.
Moreover, when we have the ability to do so - ie. when not getting shot at - we still haven't learnt that (even heated) debate can be a useful management tool, instead we choose to label detractors as troublesome, at the same time reinforcing the status quo that rank=best idea. Sir Jock and his buddies are simply leading by example, in a RAF that the press may one day describe as 'institutionally self-serving'.
The overall damage is immeasurable, yet tangible on a daily basis - next time the boss walks in, issues a diktat that flies in the face of efficiency/common sense/reality etc. and nobody fields a question when given the opportunity, you just experienced pension blindness.
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AI R - Took a lot of searching of stable belts... found it!
The Royal Marines
have a look at STABLE BELTS OF THE BRITISH ARMY
The Royal Marines
have a look at STABLE BELTS OF THE BRITISH ARMY
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Jacko Nicko I am not sure what CDS does should be described as leadership, these people appear to be highly paid managers, it matters not who is in post, there are plenty of others, breathless and willing to take the top job. The lack of accountability and political protection given by their political masters xccushions them from accountability. from the accounts I have been given of meetings with bereaved families and MoD/RAF leadership, it is very much the politicians in control. It would appear if the Def Sec/PM says JUMP, up they go in unison.
How else can you describe the undermanned under funded and under equipped foray into Southern Afghanistan in 2006?
Pension chasing is a phrase new to me, but I rather like it.
Nice one Dallas.
How else can you describe the undermanned under funded and under equipped foray into Southern Afghanistan in 2006?
Pension chasing is a phrase new to me, but I rather like it.
Nice one Dallas.
Last edited by nigegilb; 26th Oct 2008 at 13:14.
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Stable belt.
Cheers guys - if I was a bootie though, I'd be a bit insulted, not flattered. It seems a shallow and ingratiating gesture. Perhaps he was a Bootie at one point, perhaps he has done the Tarzan course, who knows? Its probably harmless enough though.
The RAF Regt started having penguins, engineer and pilots a while back as Commandant General, and of course, the first thing they always did (understandably) was sow on a set of Reggie mudguards. However much that badge might have boosted their self esteem as a career landmark, it was always meaningless to us who had struggled hard for years for the right to gas people with applomb and style.
The RAF Regt started having penguins, engineer and pilots a while back as Commandant General, and of course, the first thing they always did (understandably) was sow on a set of Reggie mudguards. However much that badge might have boosted their self esteem as a career landmark, it was always meaningless to us who had struggled hard for years for the right to gas people with applomb and style.
Civvy street is no different, in fact it's probably worse.
CEOs have obscene salaries, huge pensions, share options etc and when they F**k up, walk away into another highly paid job taking a big lump some with them.
CEOs have obscene salaries, huge pensions, share options etc and when they F**k up, walk away into another highly paid job taking a big lump some with them.
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"fees also get refunded by up to 90%."
CEA is availible to all regardless of rank, though 19 year old Private soldiers tend not to have school aged children
the indy had a virtually identical article a week or 2 ago, I suspect your ALL being set up for a cut in tearms and conditions, all in the name of equality of course
CEA is availible to all regardless of rank, though 19 year old Private soldiers tend not to have school aged children
the indy had a virtually identical article a week or 2 ago, I suspect your ALL being set up for a cut in tearms and conditions, all in the name of equality of course
Last edited by knowitall; 26th Oct 2008 at 13:39.
Chappie, if Sir Jock and his ilk ensured that the Armed Forces for which he is responsible were properly equipped and manned for the tasks given them he would be worth every penny. They aren't and he isn't.
Dallas, a thoughtful and powerful post, and one that I endorse entirely. As has been said regarding the appalling shortfall in UK Military Airworthiness, it is an evil that happened because good men and women did nothing. Sir Jock and the Service Chiefs are responsible in a legal sense for the state of our Services, but in a moral sense it is that army of good men and women who could have stood and been counted but chose not to. A sin of omission I would contend.
Dallas, a thoughtful and powerful post, and one that I endorse entirely. As has been said regarding the appalling shortfall in UK Military Airworthiness, it is an evil that happened because good men and women did nothing. Sir Jock and the Service Chiefs are responsible in a legal sense for the state of our Services, but in a moral sense it is that army of good men and women who could have stood and been counted but chose not to. A sin of omission I would contend.
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I have to agree with Saintsman here. I have been a civvy for a couple of years, and I already earn considerably more than I would ever have earnt in the military. Needless to say the senior military is still paid far less than their civvy counterparts, for doing a considerably harder, more accountable and political job. I can only guess what the CEO of BA or Lufthansa earn for example, and I know the CEOs in my company earn a lot more than Sir Jock!
Last edited by Horror box; 26th Oct 2008 at 13:43. Reason: spelling
Al R:
Cheers yourself, mate. You know that I consider every post of yours thoughtful and powerful, so it doesn't need saying!
Cheers mate. 
chappie,
I would have thought you of all people should know better than to believe everything you read in the papers.....
Boarding School Allowance (or BSA) as it is now called is an allowance available for everyone in the RAF (and I believe Army and RN as well). It is a fixed amount, or 90% of the fees, whichever is less. Believe me, in most cases it covers about 60-70% of the fees, and covers less each year as school fees go up by more than inflation. Because it doesn't cover all the fees, and the parents have to find the rest themselves, it tends to be claimed mainly by officers (from the most junior to senior) and SNCOs. This is possibly unfair (Al R thinks so - means testing I believe is his idea), but it is not designed as a senior officer 'perk'. The 87m quoted is for BSA across all ranks, not merely senior officers. I expect there are many more junior officers and SNCOs claiming it than senior officers.
As for chauffeurs, they are 'MT drivers', how many ministers drive themselves to the front door of No. 10, and you will find MT drivers wherever the RAF is, included Iraq and Afghanistan, not just at senior HQs.
Take a grain of truth, and then spin it to make the point you wish to,.......
I would have thought you of all people should know better than to believe everything you read in the papers.....
Boarding School Allowance (or BSA) as it is now called is an allowance available for everyone in the RAF (and I believe Army and RN as well). It is a fixed amount, or 90% of the fees, whichever is less. Believe me, in most cases it covers about 60-70% of the fees, and covers less each year as school fees go up by more than inflation. Because it doesn't cover all the fees, and the parents have to find the rest themselves, it tends to be claimed mainly by officers (from the most junior to senior) and SNCOs. This is possibly unfair (Al R thinks so - means testing I believe is his idea), but it is not designed as a senior officer 'perk'. The 87m quoted is for BSA across all ranks, not merely senior officers. I expect there are many more junior officers and SNCOs claiming it than senior officers.
As for chauffeurs, they are 'MT drivers', how many ministers drive themselves to the front door of No. 10, and you will find MT drivers wherever the RAF is, included Iraq and Afghanistan, not just at senior HQs.
Take a grain of truth, and then spin it to make the point you wish to,.......
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I can't get overly animated over the top fellah's pay rate. What does grip my s*t, though, is the headline (my bold);
The top fellah is not bloody Army and they are still the second senior Service. Bloody journo's and their totally slack thinking!
No offence intended to the brown jobs, they are doing brilliantly at what they do. You take my point, though?
Top army officers get at least £18m in benefits packages
No offence intended to the brown jobs, they are doing brilliantly at what they do. You take my point, though?