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Air Marshal Clive Loader passed over for top RAF job
Would appear that anyone wondering why "Torps" moved on so quickly should look no further than the Nimrod scandal. What was the phrase, "as safe as it needs to be?"
Sorry if Air Marshal Loader got overlooked because of Nimrod. He did a great many aircrew an enormous service by his candid remarks in the BoI conclusion. Not just words either, the Strike, sorry, Air Command Engineering Squad is a visible sign that air worthiness malaise is being tackled.
Air Marshal Clive Loader passed over for top RAF job
Michael Smith
THE man tipped to take over as head of the RAF was passed over after criticising the failings in the system that led to the deaths of 14 servicemen in a Nimrod aircraft over Afghanistan in September 2006.
Air Marshal Clive Loader, the current head of Air Command, who was widely expected to take over as Chief of the Air Staff did not get the job after being deemed not “single-service oriented enough”.
One senior defence source said: “It’s insider code for not being prepared to say what was best for the RAF. Put bluntly, his criticism made Glenn Torpy [the current Chief of Air Staff] look bad and Torpy gave him the thumbs down.”
The charge of not being “single-service oriented enough” was particularly damning for Loader with a senior RAF officer, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, as Chief of Defence Staff, and all three services fighting for an increasingly small proportion of the defence budget.
Gordon Brown has vetoed any public signs of defence cuts but with a £1.5m black hole in the defence budget there is widespread acceptance a number of major programmes will have to be axed with the Joint Strike Fighter seen as the first in line to go.
Loader not only criticised the problems that led to the loss of the Nimrod he also opposed Torpy’s attempts to buy Predator unmanned aircraft which exacerbated the MoD’s funding crisis.
Torpy, whose hopes of an extension to his three-year term in charge were destroyed by the Nimrod scandal, recommended Air Marshal Steve Dalton, the air member for personnel, instead for the top job.
Dalton was one of three names put forward to John Hutton, the new Defence Secretary, for the next heads of the three services and will take over in July next year.
The other two were Lt-Gen David Richards, the head of Land Command, who is to be the next Chief of General Staff, or head of the army, replacing Gen Sir Richard Dannatt, in August 2009 and Adm Sir Mark Stanhope, the Commander-in-Chief Fleet, who will replace First Sea Lord, Adm Sir Jonathon Band next July.
While the Nimrod disaster ended any chance Torpy had of a second term, both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.
Dannatt in particular angered Gordon Brown with his willingness to speak up on behalf of his men and call for the end of the Iraq deployment.
Sorry if Air Marshal Loader got overlooked because of Nimrod. He did a great many aircrew an enormous service by his candid remarks in the BoI conclusion. Not just words either, the Strike, sorry, Air Command Engineering Squad is a visible sign that air worthiness malaise is being tackled.
Air Marshal Clive Loader passed over for top RAF job
Michael Smith
THE man tipped to take over as head of the RAF was passed over after criticising the failings in the system that led to the deaths of 14 servicemen in a Nimrod aircraft over Afghanistan in September 2006.
Air Marshal Clive Loader, the current head of Air Command, who was widely expected to take over as Chief of the Air Staff did not get the job after being deemed not “single-service oriented enough”.
One senior defence source said: “It’s insider code for not being prepared to say what was best for the RAF. Put bluntly, his criticism made Glenn Torpy [the current Chief of Air Staff] look bad and Torpy gave him the thumbs down.”
The charge of not being “single-service oriented enough” was particularly damning for Loader with a senior RAF officer, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, as Chief of Defence Staff, and all three services fighting for an increasingly small proportion of the defence budget.
Gordon Brown has vetoed any public signs of defence cuts but with a £1.5m black hole in the defence budget there is widespread acceptance a number of major programmes will have to be axed with the Joint Strike Fighter seen as the first in line to go.
Loader not only criticised the problems that led to the loss of the Nimrod he also opposed Torpy’s attempts to buy Predator unmanned aircraft which exacerbated the MoD’s funding crisis.
Torpy, whose hopes of an extension to his three-year term in charge were destroyed by the Nimrod scandal, recommended Air Marshal Steve Dalton, the air member for personnel, instead for the top job.
Dalton was one of three names put forward to John Hutton, the new Defence Secretary, for the next heads of the three services and will take over in July next year.
The other two were Lt-Gen David Richards, the head of Land Command, who is to be the next Chief of General Staff, or head of the army, replacing Gen Sir Richard Dannatt, in August 2009 and Adm Sir Mark Stanhope, the Commander-in-Chief Fleet, who will replace First Sea Lord, Adm Sir Jonathon Band next July.
While the Nimrod disaster ended any chance Torpy had of a second term, both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.
Dannatt in particular angered Gordon Brown with his willingness to speak up on behalf of his men and call for the end of the Iraq deployment.
If you ever feel like a giggle, try to find the flight safety video from the mid 80's set in Belize (think it featured a mock harrier crash). It features a young Flt Lt Loader.
How amusing to hear him as a cheeky chappy god blimey guv cockney and marvel at how he has morphed into the urbane gentleman we see today!
How amusing to hear him as a cheeky chappy god blimey guv cockney and marvel at how he has morphed into the urbane gentleman we see today!
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Cheers Nige. It would seem that Loader was deemed to be not crab-centric enough.. by Torpy? I know that perception is often far removed from the reality, but that made me smile.
But following on from that, it seems that if you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't anyway, you have the choice. Be either hung for a sheep or a lamb.
But following on from that, it seems that if you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't anyway, you have the choice. Be either hung for a sheep or a lamb.
“It’s insider code for not being prepared to say what was best for the RAF. Put bluntly.. Torpy gave him the thumbs down.” The charge of not being “single-service oriented enough” was particularly damning for Loader with a senior RAF officer, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup.
.. both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.
.. both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.
While the Nimrod disaster ended any chance Torpy had of a second term, both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.
As to Loader, a system that persecutes those who point up its shortcomings is corrupt, and his being passed over says more about the dire need for reform of the rotten mess that is the MOD than it does about him. Tough break for us though, probably the best CAS we never had.
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Farewell to Loader
Being passed over for CAS must have come as a bit of a shock for Sir Clive, bringing to an abrupt end a fairly meteoric rise – in retrospect I guess his career peaked just a little too soon!
I first met Clive in 1973 at RAF Henlow where he completed IOT rather than Cranwell, having been booted out of university for failing his first year exams - something that appears missing from his CV.
I also seem to recall that within a few weeks of the start of the course Clive demonstrated a degree of personal commitment and began his ascent up the greasy pole when he started knocking-off the Chief Instructors daughter – the current Lady Loader – good skills!
Proletarian
I first met Clive in 1973 at RAF Henlow where he completed IOT rather than Cranwell, having been booted out of university for failing his first year exams - something that appears missing from his CV.
I also seem to recall that within a few weeks of the start of the course Clive demonstrated a degree of personal commitment and began his ascent up the greasy pole when he started knocking-off the Chief Instructors daughter – the current Lady Loader – good skills!
Proletarian
Last edited by Proletarian; 19th Oct 2008 at 16:22. Reason: Typo
Personally I don't think you'll see any change when Mr Dalton takes over as CAS - he is of the same mould as Mr Torpy. However with Mr Moran as CINCAIR, if his time as ACAS is anything to go by, you can expect a lot more concepts and doctrine, management speak and sitting on the fence. Our best bet for the future must rest with Stu Peach - but as a navigator it is very unlikely he will (be allowed to) progress [upwards] beyond his current (next?) appointment as CJO. I suspect he will disapppear into NATO once his time as CJO is over.
Has anyone seen it written down that Mr Torpy is to retire? I've seen it in black and white that Mr Loader is to retire but not the current CAS. With all the single service chiefs standing down within weeks of each other next year (if I recall correctly) do they still all have aspirations to be the next CDS? Look beyond them all and appoint Gen Lamb instead. Love to be a fly on the wall when the Defence Board meets if he was CDS!
Has anyone seen it written down that Mr Torpy is to retire? I've seen it in black and white that Mr Loader is to retire but not the current CAS. With all the single service chiefs standing down within weeks of each other next year (if I recall correctly) do they still all have aspirations to be the next CDS? Look beyond them all and appoint Gen Lamb instead. Love to be a fly on the wall when the Defence Board meets if he was CDS!
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If Sir Jock Stirrup will remain in post until 2011, we can assume that the g'ment did not want General Dannatt to succeed him, and one assumes, that rings true for antone else least of all someone from the same service. So, further to what Wrathmonk said, what option does Glenn Torpy have but to leave? And if there's no other job upstairs who on earth would want him around? Would Brown want Blair back as Foreign Secretary?
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Wrathmonk - Sir Glenn Torpy is to retire, see RAF - News By Date
You are almost right, IIRC, but I believe it starts at 1 not 2* and is called "Directed Retirement". Basically, if you can't cut it then you are out!
Although by some accounts, the manner in which many of those at currently at the top of the RAF greasy pole have been promoted or retained suggests they are indeed 'cutting it' as far as the politicians are concerned. According to suggestions from SO1+ level at my end of the trench, the defeaning silence from the likes of CDS, CDI etc has marked the RAF out as a politically astute organisation that knows how the play the game at the highest levels, and is in contrast to the Army and RN's 'rants'.
However, if in being outspoken and actually sticking up for his men, Dannet was not 'cutting it' or being politically astute, quite frankly I think you may as well elect the head of the RAF rather than appoint them if that's what it takes to succeed these days.
Last edited by Melchett01; 21st Oct 2008 at 16:27. Reason: Typo mistaking CAS for CDS
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Melch,
Out of interest, I wonder if this 'politically astute organisation' can extend itself to decorating married quarters and barrack blocks, get returning troops home from Bze Norton without making them wait around for 9 hours for MT and employ people who can explain why the wages are f#cked again?
Out of interest, I wonder if this 'politically astute organisation' can extend itself to decorating married quarters and barrack blocks, get returning troops home from Bze Norton without making them wait around for 9 hours for MT and employ people who can explain why the wages are f#cked again?
