Typhoon Tranche 3
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Typhoon Tranche 3
DefenseNews: Eurofighter Chief: No Reducing Tranche 3 Orders
3 Oct - LONDON - Eurofighter boss Aloysius Rauen says none of the four partner countries involved in negotiations to purchase the third and final tranche of Typhoon combat aircraft have raised the issue of reducing order numbers so far, but splitting the order into financially digestible chunks is a possibility.
Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain have committed to purchasing 236 Typhoons to complete a contract for covering 620 aircraft. Britain and Italy, under heavy pressure to balance their defense budgets by cutting programs, have been trying to wriggle out of their commitments.
Rauen, the chief executive at the Munich-based consortium made up of Alenia, BAE Systems and EADS, told reporters in Munich on Sept. 30 that splitting the Tranche 3 order, with some ordered now and the rest later, is acceptable as long as the numbers and the time frame of deliveries don't change.
The idea of splitting the order was first raised in the summer as a way of offsetting current budget pressures in Europe. Britain and Italy can't get out of the contract without incurring eye-watering penalty payments.
A deal with the four nations is needed by early next year to avoid a costly production gap opening up between Tranche 2 aircraft now in production and Tranche 3.
Rauen dismissed reports that the production costs presented to the nations for Tranche 3 aircraft exceeded limits agreed upon as part of the original umbrella contract.
EADS officials revealed that eight Typhoons destined for Saudi Arabia are on the final assembly line at BAE's factory in Warton, England, even though Washington has yet to approve the transfer of U.S. technology incorporated in the aircraft.
Approval is being held up by U.S. Justice Department concerns that approval would hamper its investigation into alleged corruption in an earlier deal selling aircraft to Saudi Arabia.
The first Typhoons, being diverted from a production run destined for the British Royal Air Force, would be ready for handing over to the Saudis in June.
3 Oct - LONDON - Eurofighter boss Aloysius Rauen says none of the four partner countries involved in negotiations to purchase the third and final tranche of Typhoon combat aircraft have raised the issue of reducing order numbers so far, but splitting the order into financially digestible chunks is a possibility.
Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain have committed to purchasing 236 Typhoons to complete a contract for covering 620 aircraft. Britain and Italy, under heavy pressure to balance their defense budgets by cutting programs, have been trying to wriggle out of their commitments.
Rauen, the chief executive at the Munich-based consortium made up of Alenia, BAE Systems and EADS, told reporters in Munich on Sept. 30 that splitting the Tranche 3 order, with some ordered now and the rest later, is acceptable as long as the numbers and the time frame of deliveries don't change.
The idea of splitting the order was first raised in the summer as a way of offsetting current budget pressures in Europe. Britain and Italy can't get out of the contract without incurring eye-watering penalty payments.
A deal with the four nations is needed by early next year to avoid a costly production gap opening up between Tranche 2 aircraft now in production and Tranche 3.
Rauen dismissed reports that the production costs presented to the nations for Tranche 3 aircraft exceeded limits agreed upon as part of the original umbrella contract.
EADS officials revealed that eight Typhoons destined for Saudi Arabia are on the final assembly line at BAE's factory in Warton, England, even though Washington has yet to approve the transfer of U.S. technology incorporated in the aircraft.
Approval is being held up by U.S. Justice Department concerns that approval would hamper its investigation into alleged corruption in an earlier deal selling aircraft to Saudi Arabia.
The first Typhoons, being diverted from a production run destined for the British Royal Air Force, would be ready for handing over to the Saudis in June.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belfast
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quick question - does Typhoon have reduced support/operating costs wrt tornado GR4? Is there a financial case to be made for replacing at least part of the GR4 fleet with tranche 3? What about savings from cannibalising the retired GR4 airframes/spreading less flight hours around the fleet.
I would have thought it would have a lot of advantages as a recce/SEAD/PW IV platfrom, maybe not for long range/low level or Storm shadow.
I suspect the bean counters might use this as an excuse to kill a longer term GR4 replacement - whatever the latest mutation of FOAS is.
I would have thought it would have a lot of advantages as a recce/SEAD/PW IV platfrom, maybe not for long range/low level or Storm shadow.
I suspect the bean counters might use this as an excuse to kill a longer term GR4 replacement - whatever the latest mutation of FOAS is.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well maintanence man hours per flight hour for the Typhoon are smaller than 9 by contract and last I heard this was being comfortably met (waiting for spares excepted), and the number of support personel is half that required for the Tornado squadrons 75 vs 150 ish (Not sure which mark though).
Cheers
Cheers
I would assume that the Typhoon has a much improved simulator compared to the Tornado, as there have been some major advances in this area over the last few decades.
Does sim time replace in any way real flying hours?
I would expect the bean-counters to pounce on this as a cost saving measure if it is realistic and effective, though I expect running the sim probably has a pretty hefty bill too.
Does sim time replace in any way real flying hours?
I would expect the bean-counters to pounce on this as a cost saving measure if it is realistic and effective, though I expect running the sim probably has a pretty hefty bill too.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Swamp
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HaveQuick 2,
The Tornado GR4 simulator is a very significant upgrade on the GR1 - the all round visual system is pretty convincing. So much so, that it is deemed realistic enough that instrument ratings and many supervisory checks are conducted in the GR4 sim.
Whilst the GR4 simulator is pretty much state of the art, it is still a simulator. Screw something up in the sim and you may be a tad embarrassed over coffee - in the real world you screw up badly and you may advance to the pearly gates without collecting £200 if you pass go!!
The lack of adrenaline and lack of cues to the vestibular organs will ensure that simulators can never totally replace live flying. Be that Tornado or Typhoon. Besides, the GR4 sim is a Private contract - so unlikely that money could be saved by substituting Typhoon sim for GR4.
Regards
F.O.D
The Tornado GR4 simulator is a very significant upgrade on the GR1 - the all round visual system is pretty convincing. So much so, that it is deemed realistic enough that instrument ratings and many supervisory checks are conducted in the GR4 sim.
Whilst the GR4 simulator is pretty much state of the art, it is still a simulator. Screw something up in the sim and you may be a tad embarrassed over coffee - in the real world you screw up badly and you may advance to the pearly gates without collecting £200 if you pass go!!
The lack of adrenaline and lack of cues to the vestibular organs will ensure that simulators can never totally replace live flying. Be that Tornado or Typhoon. Besides, the GR4 sim is a Private contract - so unlikely that money could be saved by substituting Typhoon sim for GR4.
Regards
F.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm also confused by the idea of spreading out the acquisition of Tranche 3 into 'manageable chunks'....
Last time I looked at the EP profile, the money we're spending on Typhoon isn't actually in any of the really 'overheated' years. putting a few chunks back a few years would land it right into the middle of the FRES/ASTUTE/T45/CVF/JCA spending bulge. How would that help?
Last time I looked at the EP profile, the money we're spending on Typhoon isn't actually in any of the really 'overheated' years. putting a few chunks back a few years would land it right into the middle of the FRES/ASTUTE/T45/CVF/JCA spending bulge. How would that help?
