Former Lightning people?
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Former Lightning people?
I'm embarking on another book project, this time a fairly ambitious look at the Lightning. Yes, I know it's not the most original subject (not my idea!) but it's a very popular one!
So, could I please send-out a plea for feedback from any former Lightning people, be they air or ground crew. I'm on the lookout for first-hand accounts of life with the Lightning, operations, unusual incidents, how the aircraft handled, and so on.
Likewise, I'm also searching for photographs, particularly ones which might not have been seen before. There were also lots of fairly well-known RAF/MoD images of the Lightning, particularly back in the 'sixties and 'seventies, but most of these have disappeared over time (anyone seen any of the old Keith Wilson shots too - the 56 Squadron images, etc?). If anybody knows where I might be able to trace some of the old shots that wuld be a great help - would be nice to recover some of them to show to a new generation if at all possible.
If anyone wants to contact me, please send me a message or email me, and I can answer questions or provide any details about the project as required. Cheers guys!
[email protected]
So, could I please send-out a plea for feedback from any former Lightning people, be they air or ground crew. I'm on the lookout for first-hand accounts of life with the Lightning, operations, unusual incidents, how the aircraft handled, and so on.
Likewise, I'm also searching for photographs, particularly ones which might not have been seen before. There were also lots of fairly well-known RAF/MoD images of the Lightning, particularly back in the 'sixties and 'seventies, but most of these have disappeared over time (anyone seen any of the old Keith Wilson shots too - the 56 Squadron images, etc?). If anybody knows where I might be able to trace some of the old shots that wuld be a great help - would be nice to recover some of them to show to a new generation if at all possible.
If anyone wants to contact me, please send me a message or email me, and I can answer questions or provide any details about the project as required. Cheers guys!
[email protected]
Are you going to lament the lack of a Carrier version?
"Someone at English Electric told me it would be a doddle"!
Sorry Tim, couldn't help myself....
Good luck with the book!
"Someone at English Electric told me it would be a doddle"!
Sorry Tim, couldn't help myself....
Good luck with the book!
… first-hand accounts of life with the Lightning, operations, … and so on.
Why the interim Mk 6s had stick-on black tape ventral tank gun ports when transiting through Iran.
And what a ‘bottle and 200’ under the ejection seat of the Mk 2As on the RAFG battle flight were for.
We’ve already made contact Tim.
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Indeed, stories like that are obviously of interest but also the simple day-to-day operations are always worth recalling too. For the typical reader who has probably never flown an aircraft of any description, it's always fascinating to read about hands-on stuff.
At present I haven't got any real specifics for the text. I don't want to do the usual potted history as it's been done too many times before, but of course I'm obliged to trace the history of the aircraft in some form. I'll probably try to stick to the bare bones of the Lightning's development and operational history and build on that with first-hand accounts so that the book's a better read. Think everyone would agree that simple plodding through the same history yet again wouldn't be much fun?!
As for photos, I've got plenty of space for pretty-much as many images as I can find which is good news. The bad news is that so many of the shots that have been around for years seem to have disappeared now. There's certainly lots of stuff floating around on the internet but most of these are copies of copies that have lost so much quality that they're hardly worth publishing again. It's a great shame that so many shots have disappeared. Apart from the afore-mentioned shots taken by Mr.Wilson (which I will endeavour to find) even the official RAF stuff is thin on the ground now. I noticed that the "new-look" (ie- rubbish) RAF site managed to take-away some of the beautiful old shots they had on their (including the Firebirds) and replace them with tiny poor-resolution versions. Guess that's progress?!
Anyways thanks for the feedback guys and if anyone spots anything or anyone else of interest do please let me know - all help appreciated.
Tim
At present I haven't got any real specifics for the text. I don't want to do the usual potted history as it's been done too many times before, but of course I'm obliged to trace the history of the aircraft in some form. I'll probably try to stick to the bare bones of the Lightning's development and operational history and build on that with first-hand accounts so that the book's a better read. Think everyone would agree that simple plodding through the same history yet again wouldn't be much fun?!
As for photos, I've got plenty of space for pretty-much as many images as I can find which is good news. The bad news is that so many of the shots that have been around for years seem to have disappeared now. There's certainly lots of stuff floating around on the internet but most of these are copies of copies that have lost so much quality that they're hardly worth publishing again. It's a great shame that so many shots have disappeared. Apart from the afore-mentioned shots taken by Mr.Wilson (which I will endeavour to find) even the official RAF stuff is thin on the ground now. I noticed that the "new-look" (ie- rubbish) RAF site managed to take-away some of the beautiful old shots they had on their (including the Firebirds) and replace them with tiny poor-resolution versions. Guess that's progress?!
Anyways thanks for the feedback guys and if anyone spots anything or anyone else of interest do please let me know - all help appreciated.
Tim
I hear there is a group of WIWOLs playing golf at Watton next Wednesday!!
For the price of a few beers you might get some good yarns!!
PS Any former Lightning drivers who wish to play do get in touch with Ed Durham ASAP as Im sure there is room for a few more!!
For the price of a few beers you might get some good yarns!!
PS Any former Lightning drivers who wish to play do get in touch with Ed Durham ASAP as Im sure there is room for a few more!!
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Hey Tim,
A couple of months ago, I got a load of junk mail through the letter box, like you do, but among it was something interesting, a little mini catalogue, kinda like what you'd get free in the TV times or some general interests magazine, it was just about military related stuff, steam locomotives, motor bikes, books, DVD's etc etc etc. And in it was a DVD about the EE Lightning, I remember reading about what it featured, unseen footage, interviews from pilots, ground crew, (I think?), design stage, development from day one until it's last day(s) in operational service etc etc etc...Pretty much everything & I'm guessing a lot of things we all know very little about. I haven't seen it in any stores.
I'm after ordering that DVD for myself, I really need it, but I've lost the catalogue that it's in, looked everywhere for it, I even asked my girl that lives in Dubai if she's seen it because I was flicking through it on a flight on the way there, but I'm 100% certain it's here at home in Geordie land somewhere. If I'll find it I'll let you know, what the catalogue name is, what the proper name of the DVD is, who it's published by & what not. It might come into some good use for your project, give you some information. (If you haven't already heard of it & seen it).
And also, I think I read that the running time is the best part of two hours or so. Sounds great.
But anyway, very best of luck on your project, can't wait to read it. It'd be a great read I'm sure. EE Lightning is one of my, if not, THE favourite aircraft of all time.
Regards.
A couple of months ago, I got a load of junk mail through the letter box, like you do, but among it was something interesting, a little mini catalogue, kinda like what you'd get free in the TV times or some general interests magazine, it was just about military related stuff, steam locomotives, motor bikes, books, DVD's etc etc etc. And in it was a DVD about the EE Lightning, I remember reading about what it featured, unseen footage, interviews from pilots, ground crew, (I think?), design stage, development from day one until it's last day(s) in operational service etc etc etc...Pretty much everything & I'm guessing a lot of things we all know very little about. I haven't seen it in any stores.
I'm after ordering that DVD for myself, I really need it, but I've lost the catalogue that it's in, looked everywhere for it, I even asked my girl that lives in Dubai if she's seen it because I was flicking through it on a flight on the way there, but I'm 100% certain it's here at home in Geordie land somewhere. If I'll find it I'll let you know, what the catalogue name is, what the proper name of the DVD is, who it's published by & what not. It might come into some good use for your project, give you some information. (If you haven't already heard of it & seen it).
And also, I think I read that the running time is the best part of two hours or so. Sounds great.
But anyway, very best of luck on your project, can't wait to read it. It'd be a great read I'm sure. EE Lightning is one of my, if not, THE favourite aircraft of all time.
Regards.
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You could probably fill a chapter on failed rotation take-offs alone, especially those that took place immediately after various runways had been resurfaced ...... and immediately wrecked!
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Do elaborate zoom ... 
Quite agree Tiffy, it's a great subject no matter how many times it gets tackled in book form. I'm just a little reluctant to churn-out the same sort of thing that has been done before, but it's a struggle to find people who either have the time or inclination to talk about their experiences. I think a lot of it is down to the usual problem of finding the time to recollect things, plus there's also the problem that when stories are remembered, it's often difficult to establish the facts when so many years have gone by! It's not impossible though.
I think my problem is going to be the photographs, as the more I look into it, the worse the situation seems to be. There's a lot of Lighning imagery about, but not an awful lot which is good enough to publish in book form any more. But I'll press-on and see what we can discover!
Quite agree Tiffy, it's a great subject no matter how many times it gets tackled in book form. I'm just a little reluctant to churn-out the same sort of thing that has been done before, but it's a struggle to find people who either have the time or inclination to talk about their experiences. I think a lot of it is down to the usual problem of finding the time to recollect things, plus there's also the problem that when stories are remembered, it's often difficult to establish the facts when so many years have gone by! It's not impossible though.
I think my problem is going to be the photographs, as the more I look into it, the worse the situation seems to be. There's a lot of Lighning imagery about, but not an awful lot which is good enough to publish in book form any more. But I'll press-on and see what we can discover!
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yeah, I can imagine it's a struggle to find people to talk about their experiences, especially the earlier genertation of EE Lightning pilots & groundcrew, and of course the ones that developed it, it'd be fascinating to read about their experiences, because you know, pretty much nothing had been close to the EE Lightning in out-right performence, would've been a hell of an experience for anyone at that time.
And also, you've heard of BAE Systems test pilot Graig Penrice I believe, as I believe you already know he used to be a Lightning pilot, flew Tornado, F-14, F-16, F-15, F-18, Mig-29, Typhoon & countless others. It'd be interesting to read about his experences, especially compared to the other fighters he's flown. Be a great read.
Well anyway, best of luck once again matey.
And also, you've heard of BAE Systems test pilot Graig Penrice I believe, as I believe you already know he used to be a Lightning pilot, flew Tornado, F-14, F-16, F-15, F-18, Mig-29, Typhoon & countless others. It'd be interesting to read about his experences, especially compared to the other fighters he's flown. Be a great read.
Well anyway, best of luck once again matey.
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Photos
Tim
Have you spoken to Ian Black? When he was doing the airshows in 1986 while on 11 sqn he had a binder full of shots that he was selling, I know because I had a leaf through and bought a couple of 8x10's which were stunning. I have not seen these in any of his books or others published since. AFAIR there were quite a few such in the binder.
I am also nuts about Lightnings and have bought a copy of everything published since including both of Stuart Scott's volumes.
I wonder if Chris Allan also has anything you could use?
best wishes
EGGP
Have you spoken to Ian Black? When he was doing the airshows in 1986 while on 11 sqn he had a binder full of shots that he was selling, I know because I had a leaf through and bought a couple of 8x10's which were stunning. I have not seen these in any of his books or others published since. AFAIR there were quite a few such in the binder.
I am also nuts about Lightnings and have bought a copy of everything published since including both of Stuart Scott's volumes.
I wonder if Chris Allan also has anything you could use?
best wishes
EGGP
Tried an approach on Ark in a MK6 one day - frightened myself @@@@less
Tim
TiffyFGA4 referred to a mail-order DVD catalogue:
I think this is the one he was referring to. Synopsis follows:
Further details here:
Buy Classic British Jets - Lightning online from Simply Home Entertainment
FWIW current Lightning book list is as follows. It's obvious you'll be entering a fairly full market of Lightning books.
TiffyFGA4 referred to a mail-order DVD catalogue:
a little mini catalogue, kinda like what you'd get free in the TV times or some general interests magazine, it was just about military related stuff, steam locomotives, motor bikes, books, DVD's etc etc etc. And in it was a DVD about the EE Lightning, I remember reading about what it featured, unseen footage, interviews from pilots, ground crew, (I think?), design stage, development from day one until it's last day(s) in operational service etc etc etc...Pretty much everything & I'm guessing a lot of things we all know very little about. I haven't seen it in any stores
Classic British Jets - Lightning
Running Time - 1 hr 11
Certificate - Exempt
Number of Discs - 1
Subtitles - No
Region - 0
Price: £12.99
The English Electric Lightning was the RAF's first and only all-British supersonic fighter. This 'Cold War Warrior' was conceived in 1947 and remained in operational service until the late 1980s. Ferocious and unforgiving to fly, and built around a powerful weapons systems, its pilots were the undisputed elite heirs to the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots of the Battle of Britain.
LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR puts you in the cockpit of this classic British fighter and reveals what it was really like to fly on operational service.
Made with unprecedented access to the English Electric and British Aerospace archives at Warton, LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR features much rare and exclusive film materials, including manufacturer's own footage, Squadron Scrambles, intercept footage, Farnborough appearances, live weapons practice and in-flight refuelling.
The makers of the DVD have also been granted unprecedented access to the film archives of No.74 Squadron at Wattisham for operational film materials, while ex-squadron members provide fascinating first-hand accounts of what the Lightning was like to fly.
Other highlights include a full technical walk around and exclusive interviews with 'Bea' Beaumont, Air Vice Marshal John Howe and chief test pilot Eric Brown, who compares the Lightning with other jets of the era - including rival Soviet interceptors - which he tested.
Running Time - 1 hr 11
Certificate - Exempt
Number of Discs - 1
Subtitles - No
Region - 0
Price: £12.99
The English Electric Lightning was the RAF's first and only all-British supersonic fighter. This 'Cold War Warrior' was conceived in 1947 and remained in operational service until the late 1980s. Ferocious and unforgiving to fly, and built around a powerful weapons systems, its pilots were the undisputed elite heirs to the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots of the Battle of Britain.
LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR puts you in the cockpit of this classic British fighter and reveals what it was really like to fly on operational service.
Made with unprecedented access to the English Electric and British Aerospace archives at Warton, LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR features much rare and exclusive film materials, including manufacturer's own footage, Squadron Scrambles, intercept footage, Farnborough appearances, live weapons practice and in-flight refuelling.
The makers of the DVD have also been granted unprecedented access to the film archives of No.74 Squadron at Wattisham for operational film materials, while ex-squadron members provide fascinating first-hand accounts of what the Lightning was like to fly.
Other highlights include a full technical walk around and exclusive interviews with 'Bea' Beaumont, Air Vice Marshal John Howe and chief test pilot Eric Brown, who compares the Lightning with other jets of the era - including rival Soviet interceptors - which he tested.
Buy Classic British Jets - Lightning online from Simply Home Entertainment
FWIW current Lightning book list is as follows. It's obvious you'll be entering a fairly full market of Lightning books.
Books:
'Lightning Force: RAF Units 1960-1988 - A Photographic Appreciation of the English Electric Lightning'
by Fred Martin
Published by Dalrymple and Verdun Publishing, June 2005 ISBN: 1905414005
* Pictorial coverage of all the RAF squadrons that operated the Lightning.
'Lightning Strikes: English Electric's Supersonic Fighter in Action'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, May 2001 ISBN: 1840372362
* Superb collection of action photos, with informative captions and amusing anecdotes.
'English Electric Lightning: Vol.1 Birth of a Legend '
by Stewart Scott
Published by GMS Enterprises, Sept 2000 ISBN: 1870384784
* Very detailed comprehensive history of the formative years of the Lightning.
'Lightning From The Cockpit: Flying the Supersonic Legend'
by Peter Caygill
Published by Leo Cooper Ltd, 30 July 2004 ISBN: 1844150828
* Sixteen personal accounts of what it was like to fly the Lightning.
'The English Electric Lightning: A Comprehensive Guide for the Modeller'
by Richard J Caruana
Published by SAM Publications, 1 Jan 2003 ISBN: 0953346579
* Well illustrated guide for modellers with fold-out scale plans and close-up details.
'The Last of the Lightnings'
by Ian Black
Published by Patrick Stephens Limited, Oct 1996 ISBN: 1852605413
* Recalls the operations of 5 and XI Squadrons from Binbrook, with excellent colour photos.
'English Electric Lightning (Crowood Aviation Series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, 29 April 2005 ISBN: 1861267371
* A celebration of the British fighter, with appendices listing units, production totals and individual aircraft histories.
'English Electric/BAC Lightning'
by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny
Published by Osprey Publications Ltd, Nov 1984 ISBN: 0850455626
* Very well written history of the Lightning, published before it's retirement.
'The English Electric Lightning (Images of Aviation series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by Tempus Publishing Ltd, Aug 1999 ISBN: 0752417061
* Collection of b+w Lightning photos.
'Lightning: The Operational History'
by Kev Darling
Published by Airlife Publishing, July 1995 ISBN: 185310521X
* Development and service use of the Lightning by RAF, RSAF and KAF.
'English Electric Lightning: Warbird Tech 28'
by Kev Darling
Published by Speciality Press, Jan 2001 ISBN: 1 58007 028 0
* Development history with b+w reprints from Lightning technical manuals.
'English Electric Aircraft Since 1908'
by A J Jackson
Published by Putnam Aeronautical Books, 1990 ISBN: 0 85177 834 8
* Detailed company history with a chapter on the Lightning.
'Wings Of Fame Volume 7'
Published by Aerospace Publishing, 1997 ISBN: 1 874023 97 2 (pb)/1 874023 98 0 (hb)
* Includes well written 66-page feature on the Lightning.
'Lightning Force: RAF Units 1960-1988 - A Photographic Appreciation of the English Electric Lightning'
by Fred Martin
Published by Dalrymple and Verdun Publishing, June 2005 ISBN: 1905414005
* Pictorial coverage of all the RAF squadrons that operated the Lightning.
'Lightning Strikes: English Electric's Supersonic Fighter in Action'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, May 2001 ISBN: 1840372362
* Superb collection of action photos, with informative captions and amusing anecdotes.
'English Electric Lightning: Vol.1 Birth of a Legend '
by Stewart Scott
Published by GMS Enterprises, Sept 2000 ISBN: 1870384784
* Very detailed comprehensive history of the formative years of the Lightning.
'Lightning From The Cockpit: Flying the Supersonic Legend'
by Peter Caygill
Published by Leo Cooper Ltd, 30 July 2004 ISBN: 1844150828
* Sixteen personal accounts of what it was like to fly the Lightning.
'The English Electric Lightning: A Comprehensive Guide for the Modeller'
by Richard J Caruana
Published by SAM Publications, 1 Jan 2003 ISBN: 0953346579
* Well illustrated guide for modellers with fold-out scale plans and close-up details.
'The Last of the Lightnings'
by Ian Black
Published by Patrick Stephens Limited, Oct 1996 ISBN: 1852605413
* Recalls the operations of 5 and XI Squadrons from Binbrook, with excellent colour photos.
'English Electric Lightning (Crowood Aviation Series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, 29 April 2005 ISBN: 1861267371
* A celebration of the British fighter, with appendices listing units, production totals and individual aircraft histories.
'English Electric/BAC Lightning'
by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny
Published by Osprey Publications Ltd, Nov 1984 ISBN: 0850455626
* Very well written history of the Lightning, published before it's retirement.
'The English Electric Lightning (Images of Aviation series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by Tempus Publishing Ltd, Aug 1999 ISBN: 0752417061
* Collection of b+w Lightning photos.
'Lightning: The Operational History'
by Kev Darling
Published by Airlife Publishing, July 1995 ISBN: 185310521X
* Development and service use of the Lightning by RAF, RSAF and KAF.
'English Electric Lightning: Warbird Tech 28'
by Kev Darling
Published by Speciality Press, Jan 2001 ISBN: 1 58007 028 0
* Development history with b+w reprints from Lightning technical manuals.
'English Electric Aircraft Since 1908'
by A J Jackson
Published by Putnam Aeronautical Books, 1990 ISBN: 0 85177 834 8
* Detailed company history with a chapter on the Lightning.
'Wings Of Fame Volume 7'
Published by Aerospace Publishing, 1997 ISBN: 1 874023 97 2 (pb)/1 874023 98 0 (hb)
* Includes well written 66-page feature on the Lightning.
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Yup, it's one of the most popular subjects. Have to admit it's not a subject I suggested but the publisher wants it, and they've probably made the correct assumption that there's always interest in a Lightning book, no matter how many have appeared in the past. It's just a bit frustrating from my viewpoint as there's always the desire to produce something a little different from the other books but it's almost impossible!
Re- Ian Black and Chris Allan, I am trying to track them down of course - but so far no luck. Anyone have any clues where they might be lurking these days. Ahh... once upon a time we all worked for the same publisher - life was much easier!
Re- Ian Black and Chris Allan, I am trying to track them down of course - but so far no luck. Anyone have any clues where they might be lurking these days. Ahh... once upon a time we all worked for the same publisher - life was much easier!
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Tim
I was struck by this contribution from Prankster on the thread below
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...lightning.html
If this is true why did RR not sort the problem if they knew the cause, or was the Lightning doomed by the Sandys white paper by then? I don't recall this being covered in any previous tomes. Would this be worth looking into further as part of your new book?
EGGP
I was struck by this contribution from Prankster on the thread below
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...lightning.html
Lightning My Ar..
The reason 'they' never uprated the Lightning is 'cos we (RR) never did quite solve the engine fires problem. Oh we knew what the cause was and fiddled and faddled and faddled and fiddled. RAF Dogger Bank collected more Lightnings than remained in service at the end of its life. Even the Hucknall flying test bed ended up parting company with its pilot somewhere near Grantham due to yes you guessed an engine fire. Nuff said
The reason 'they' never uprated the Lightning is 'cos we (RR) never did quite solve the engine fires problem. Oh we knew what the cause was and fiddled and faddled and faddled and fiddled. RAF Dogger Bank collected more Lightnings than remained in service at the end of its life. Even the Hucknall flying test bed ended up parting company with its pilot somewhere near Grantham due to yes you guessed an engine fire. Nuff said
EGGP
Last edited by EGGP; 6th Oct 2008 at 18:41. Reason: grammar
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Tim, Blackie (Ian) fies for Virgin and will have dozens of unpublished photos. I have a perspective from the very last years at Binbrook; types of flying, characters, funnies (stude on LTF went to jet for first supersonic sortie solo in F3 and didn't have fuel in ventral tank but told no-one and went anyway...), that sort of thing.